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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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K-Dog said:
Our budget is in the trillions of dollars. Plural. Trillions with a T. It is a spark standing next to the sun. Government spending is beyond out of control.
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that's exactly my point - the money that's been saved is probably less than a 20,000th (0.005%) of the US national debt - all im doing is backing up @Inqui 's point that cutting foreign aid really does nothing to help the US in any real sense because of how large the numbers we are dealing with are...
 
rossihunter2 said:
that's exactly my point - the money that's been saved is probably less than a 20,000th (0.005%) of the US national debt - all im doing is backing up @Inqui 's point that cutting foreign aid really does nothing to help the US in any real sense because of how large the numbers we are dealing with are...
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You do realize I was agreeing with your post right?
 
Trump pushed his position on the holy grail of Sunday life. Now that is political. Interference with our way of life is intolerable..
 
Inqui said:
Not bad but I'm not sure what the point is beyond symbolism or just showmanship. Foreign aid is honestly the most overstated part of any government's budget, and the $850 million listed makes up 0.025% of the estimated shortfall of $3.4 trillion in road investments per the Global Infrastructure Hub (which is honestly on the conservative side of estimates that I've seen but I digress). And that assumes there's zero opportunity cost in terms of regional stability (bearing in mind this is the government that's most likely to lose control of its nukes), military aid, development programs and political capital (next time someone like Bin Laden shows up on Pakistani soil), which overly simplistic given foreign aid is usually given with a fair amount of self-interest in mind. So like I say, I'm not really sure what the point is in the bigger picture.
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It's just showmanship. Rand talks a big game but has never, ever delivered. GOP's in power so let's see what they do. Can Rand whip the votes? I doubt it. He never has. He and his father are undoubtedly the smartest people in the right wing but they have never delivered on anything at all. Whether that says more about them, the GOP, or GOP voters, I dunno.
K-Dog said:
It is a sad statement of our country's budget to think $850,000,000.00 is not a lot of money.
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If you paid legitimate, serious attention to government, you'd know it's not a lot of money in relative terms. $850 million isn't even a "a lot" for a state government, let alone the feds.
K-Dog said:
Our budget is in the trillions of dollars. Plural. Trillions with a T. It is a spark standing next to the sun. Government spending is beyond out of control.
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At what number of zeroes should the government stop spending? Is this an arbitrary limit? Why that limit? Please explain and show your work. Why is a multi-trillion dollar budget "out of control" for a first world country and world superpower with among the strongest militaries and economies? What qualifies you to determine what level of spending is out of control? How can you tell it's out of control?
 
Lets do a quick poll. What will Trump's next tweet be about?

A: Celebrities, including Hillary, making fun of him on the Grammy's
B: Reaching an infrastructure deal with Congress
C: Making a deal on immigration reform
D: The country's economic stats, which are actually worse than under Obama
 
K-Dog said:
Our budget is in the trillions of dollars. Plural. Trillions with a T. It is a spark standing next to the sun. Government spending is beyond out of control.
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I certainly agree with you that our budget is a big number. What bothers me most is that we do not do enough with the money we spend. We need to get more bang for our federal buck.
 
Somerset Ravens said:
I am curious which economic stats are worse. Do you have any numbers to share?
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Off hand I can tell you that Trump's average job growth is worse than every average since 2010. Pretty stunning for a GOP president from a business background to be worse on jobs than a Democrat who had a (bullshit) reputation for being bad on jobs, no? What ever happened to that elusive 4 percent GDP growth? Oh right, Trump's growth is slower than Obama's, too. Unemployment hit its lowest point? Sure, but the downward trendline is consistent with and unchanged from what Obama left us with. Essentially, if you look at the numbers and aren't a fucking moron, it's easy to see Trump has just rode the coattails of Obama-era economic trends.

What exactly is Trump good at? Oh, the stocks are increasing? No shit, the stocks have trended up every year regardless of the presidency. Tell me something I don't know.

"By almost every economic measure, the upward trends Sanders and Trump cite began while Obama was still in office."
 
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The Raven said:
Off hand I can tell you that Trump's average job growth is worse than every average since 2010. Pretty stunning for a GOP president from a business background to be worse on jobs than a Democrat who had a (bullshit) reputation for being bad on jobs, no? What ever happened to that elusive 4 percent GDP growth? Oh right, Trump's growth is slower than Obama's, too. Unemployment hit its lowest point? Sure, but the downward trendline is consistent with and unchanged from what Obama left us with. Essentially, if you look at the numbers and aren't a fucking moron, it's easy to see Trump has just rode the coattails of Obama-era economic trends.

What exactly is Trump good at? Oh, the stocks are increasing? No shit, the stocks have trended up every year regardless of the presidency. Tell me something I don't know.

"By almost every economic measure, the upward trends Sanders and Trump cite began while Obama was still in office."
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I recognize that you have a vendetta against Republicans, I am not going to defend them. I was curious if you had actual numbers on the economic stats that are declining, hopefully with sources.
 
Dom McRaven said:
Regardless, I'm looking forward to truly see the proof behind all this corruption and whatnot.
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tbh id be more worried about the precedent it sends with regards to classified documents...

i also find it crazy that no one is really asking questions about how problematic the memo is to begin with - am i missing something or has nunes essentially delivered sensitive information from a federal investigation to the subject of that investigation?
 
Somerset Ravens said:
I recognize that you have a vendetta against Republicans, I am not going to defend them. I was curious if you had actual numbers on the economic stats that are declining, hopefully with sources.
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There was a source in the post you quoted? That had cited economic figures?

I'll specify that GDP growth was at times less than Obama's and job creation was frequently lower. In other areas, like unemployment, Trump's economy has simply continued Obama-era trends.

All I'm tryna say, really, is that Trump hasn't actually had an impact on the economy yet. Which is kinda sad given the solid hand he got dealt.
 
rossihunter2 said:
tbh id be more worried about the precedent it sends with regards to classified documents...

i also find it crazy that no one is really asking questions about how problematic the memo is to begin with - am i missing something or has nunes essentially delivered sensitive information from a federal investigation to the subject of that investigation?
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That's exactly what happened. The Republican party just voted to release a classified document that details how the FBI investigates national security issues. And GOP voters are excited, because??? All of this is fucking stupid. The GOP is politicizing national security and an ongoing FBI investigation. Hmm. I wonder why. Fucking idiots.

What is also fucking stupid is that people seem to think the memo will clear Trump of wrongdoing or something, when in actuality, all it will show is the methods, which are admittedly borderline illegal, of the investigation. I don't believe the memo challenges the substance. Only the process. Translation: We're losing the game and we're taking the ball and going home because we don't like how the FBI is playing.
 
rossihunter2 said:
tbh id be more worried about the precedent it sends with regards to classified documents...

i also find it crazy that no one is really asking questions about how problematic the memo is to begin with - am i missing something or has nunes essentially delivered sensitive information from a federal investigation to the subject of that investigation?
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I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know much about this Nunes memo. It's a big reason why I don't comment much on this thread. But I will say this, I often wonder how far our government's corruption goes, but more importantly, can they actually prove the corruption to be legit?

As far as this whole Trump-Russia thing, what the hell is taking them this long to find proof of said collusion? Is there any concrete evidence of this collusion? It's just a lotta shit that I wonder about pertaining to our govt.
 
The Raven said:
There was a source in the post you quoted? That had cited economic figures?

I'll specify that GDP growth was at times less than Obama's and job creation was frequently lower. In other areas, like unemployment, Trump's economy has simply continued Obama-era trends.

All I'm tryna say, really, is that Trump hasn't actually had an impact on the economy yet. Which is kinda sad given the solid hand he got dealt.
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The numbers were interesting, pretty much a mixed bag. I never would have thought the poverty rate is at a ten year low, even though it is still pathetic. The one number I found most encouraging what the decrease in the U6 unemployment rate.

I am not a Trump supporter but to be fair you need to him give more than a year before judging his impact on the economy.

Trump was dealt a solid hand. Are you serious?
 
Dom McRaven said:
I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know much about this Nunes memo. It's a big reason why I don't comment much on this thread. But I will say this, I often wonder how far our government's corruption goes, but more importantly, can they actually prove the corruption to be legit?

As far as this whole Trump-Russia thing, what the hell is taking them this long to find proof of said collusion? Is there any concrete evidence of this collusion? It's just a lotta shit that I wonder about pertaining to our govt.
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In this instance of course it’s gonna take time when there’s some potential involvement by the president and it’s not like nothings happened yet - the investigation has charged figures in the trump camp (at various points) and it would seem each time they are getting higher along the food chain - the nature of their charges and the timings of them are also suspicious in the sense that they are not seemingly being charged at as higher level as expected which suggests one of two things:

1) they have been turned informant in return for lesser charges - I suggest this is fairly likely given the way each successive charge works its way up the chain and the fact that the Trump camp seems to have given up any pretence of actually defending itself and is essentially trying to discredit the FBI investigation (which as an outsider seems a fairly dangerous precedent because it could pave the way to politicise policing - from what I understand the FBI postings are long term so that they are independent of the presidency and government)

2) this is all a haze of nothingness and the FBI is clutching at straws and going after the minnows with whatever it can find just to justify the massive media storm around the investigation (its possible but to me this seems unlikely again mostly because of the trump camp reaction and the way it is seemingly doing everything it can to undermine the investigation rather than meeting it head on - if no collusion had happened there’d be nothing for the FBI to find and no reason to worry about them)

Pick your own option I guess but to me there’s definitely one more viable option and it’s the first

Both are reasons for why the investigation will take a long time: either the fbi is being obstructed and hindered and therefore has to steadily work its way carefully up the chain of collusion or it has nothing and is saving face
 
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