The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[rossihunter2]

The numbers were interesting, pretty much a mixed bag. I never would have thought the poverty rate is at a ten year low, even though it is still pathetic. The one number I found most encouraging what the decrease in the U6 unemployment rate.

I am not a Trump supporter but to be fair you need to him give more than a year before judging his impact on the economy.

Trump was dealt a solid hand. Are you serious?

As an outside observer I’d agree that trump had a fairly solid hand economically when he came into office: the previous administration had dealt with the economic impact of the recession with a vehicle to recovery and growth that was still operating effectively when trump came into power...

What major economic challenges objectively has trump been faced with? What economic issues has he had to deal with or have even been present since his inauguration?

 

[cobrajet]

My whole problem with the DOJ and FBI stems from the Hillary Clinton investigation. Comey should have been fired a long time ago because of that alone. She is given a federal subpoena during the email server investigation to turn over her emails and she blatantly rufuses to and deletes many of them and hires a company to clean the rest of them up before she turns them over. Sorry folks but you don’t get to do that. If that were you or me we would be in prison. Loretta Lynch then meets her husband on a plane during this investigation. You clearly had obstruction of justice, yet no one was charged? Now people are screaming that we should respect the FBI and their “unbiased” investigation of Donald Trump. Give me a freaking break! Maybe he did collude with Russia, but after how they handled the Hillary Clinton investigation, they lost all credibility for me and I am sure many other Americans.

I know one thing, if I had the power of the President - there is no way I would quietly sit back and let the deputy director of the FBI, who him and his wife received $500,000 from the Clintons railroad me......”F” that!!!!!!!!

 

[The Raven]

The numbers were interesting, pretty much a mixed bag. I never would have thought the poverty rate is at a ten year low, even though it is still pathetic. The one number I found most encouraging what the decrease in the U6 unemployment rate.

I am not a Trump supporter but to be fair you need to him give more than a year before judging his impact on the economy.

Trump was dealt a solid hand. Are you serious?

I'll give him more time before passing final judgment. I even said "yet" in my last post if you read it. It's just irritating that half of the voters in this country blamed Obama for what they felt was a struggling economy, yet they praise Trump for apparently fixing it -- even though he's done nothing but reap the benefits of following Obama. Hell, Trump himself thinks he's doing better than Obama when there isn't a single measure where he's objectively doing better.

What wasn't solid about the hand he was dealt? Every single economic indicator had been improving at the time he took office. It's not as though he took office during the middle of a recession. To say he wasn't dealt a solid hand is to not look at the statistics.

 

[The Raven]

My whole problem with the DOJ and FBI stems from the Hillary Clinton investigation. Comey should have been fired a long time ago because of that alone. She is given a federal subpoena during the email server investigation to turn over her emails and she blatantly rufuses to and deletes many of them and hires a company to clean the rest of them up before she turns them over. Sorry folks but you don’t get to do that. If that were you or me we would be in prison. Loretta Lynch then meets her husband on a plane during this investigation. You clearly had obstruction of justice, yet no one was charged? Now people are screaming that we should respect the FBI and their “unbiased” investigation of Donald Trump. Give me a freaking break! Maybe he did collude with Russia, but after how they handled the Hillary Clinton investigation, they lost all credibility for me and I am sure many other Americans.

I know one thing, if I had the power of the President - there is no way I would quietly sit back and let the deputy director of the FBI, who him and his wife received $500,000 from the Clintons railroad me......”F” that!!!!!!!!

"My name is Cobrajet and I know more than the FBI. I'm going to go tell them how to do their job."

Dude, eight GOP-led congressional investigations couldn't even dig dirt on Hill. Maybe there ain't shit and your partisan biases won't let you accept that.

So there's no way you'd sit back and get "railroaded" by the FBI? What would you do to the FBI, which operates independently of the president? What would you do about this without breaking the law yourself?

 

[Somerset Ravens]

I'll give him more time before passing final judgment. I even said "yet" in my last post if you read it. It's just irritating that half of the voters in this country blamed Obama for what they felt was a struggling economy, yet they praise Trump for apparently fixing it -- even though he's done nothing but reap the benefits of following Obama. Hell, Trump himself thinks he's doing better than Obama when there isn't a single measure where he's objectively doing better.

What wasn't solid about the hand he was dealt? Every single economic indicator had been improving at the time he took office. It's not as though he took office during the middle of a recession. To say he wasn't dealt a solid hand is to not look at the statistics.

I do believe Obama shares blame for a struggling economy, but so does Bush and even more so congress. Both parties share responsibility.

Here are some things that were not solid about the hand Trump was dealt and yes both parties are at fault.


1. A $20 trillion dollar national debt.

2. A too large and inefficient federal government.

3. A non functioning congress.

4. A healthcare crisis.

5. Years of stagnant wages for the middle class.

6. Inner cities filled with poverty and crime.

7. Education systems that don’t adequately prepare Americans for the future.

8. An immigration system that is totally out of control.

9. Infrastructure in dire need of repair.

10. A political system that allows special interest groups to flex their financial muscle to get their way.


Even sadder, this is the hand America has been dealt.

 

[The Raven]

I do believe Obama shares blame for a struggling economy, but so does Bush and even more so congress. Both parties share responsibility.

Here are some things that were not solid about the hand Trump was dealt and yes both parties are at fault.


1. A $20 trillion dollar national debt.

2. A too large and inefficient federal government.

3. A non functioning congress.

4. A healthcare crisis.

5. Years of stagnant wages for the middle class.

6. Inner cities filled with poverty and crime.

7. Education systems that don’t adequately prepare Americans for the future.

8. An immigration system that is totally out of control.

9. Infrastructure in dire need of repair.

10. A political system that allows special interest groups to flex their financial muscle to get their way.


Even sadder, this is the hand America has been dealt.

Most presidents, including Obama, have inherited those problems. What's your point? Maybe if Congressional Republicans weren't obstructionists, Obama might have been able to do something. As it stands now, GOP can do damn near whatever it wants, but hasn't done a thing.

 

[Somerset Ravens]

Most presidents, including Obama, have inherited those problems. What's your point? Maybe if Congressional Republicans weren't obstructionists, Obama might have been able to do something. As it stands now, GOP can do damn near whatever it wants, but hasn't done a thing.

Do you realize it takes 60 votes to pass something in the Senate? Since the GOP doesn’t have 60 votes how can it do what it wants? Both parties are obstructionists. You don’t see Chuck Schumer as an obstructionist?

May I ask why you are so obsessed with Obama ?

The point you inquire about is that this country faces many problems thanks to both parties.

 

[The Raven]

Do you realize it takes 60 votes to pass something in the Senate? Since the GOP doesn’t have 60 votes how can it do what it wants? Both parties are obstructionists. You don’t see Chuck Schumer as an obstructionist?

May I ask why you are so obsessed with Obama ?

The point you inquire about is that this country faces many problems thanks to both parties.

Democrats will give 60 votes on infrastructure, campaign finance reform, and others. Too bad there aren't bills being considered. GOP Senate wouldn't even give Obama 60 votes for free community college, which would have raised middle class wages. So, try, try again.

Schumer probably shouldn't have shut down the govt but what else has he obstructed?

Probably because Obama's the fucking immediate past president, duh. He's a good man and was an effective leader who contrasts well with the fascist in the oval.

 

[Rusfan]

I can't go 10 steps out of my house before passing a death camp, personally.

 

[rossihunter2]

Just saw this tweeted... am i missing some context or something because this seems completely undemocratic...

Here's the tweet:

• "Congress voted 517-5 to impose sanctions on Russia. The President decides to ignore that law. Folks that is a constitutional crisis. There should be outrage in every corner of this country."

is that true? because that's outrageous if Trump has truly done that...

 

[Somerset Ravens]

Democrats will give 60 votes on infrastructure, campaign finance reform, and others. Too bad there aren't bills being considered. GOP Senate wouldn't even give Obama 60 votes for free community college, which would have raised middle class wages. So, try, try again.

Schumer probably shouldn't have shut down the govt but what else has he obstructed?

Probably because Obama's the fucking immediate past president, duh. He's a good man and was an effective leader who contrasts well with the fascist in the oval.

The Democrats will never vote for campaign finance reform, neither would the Republicans. They are all too greedy.

When was the vote for free community college? I missed that.

Schumer trys to obstruct anything the Republicans try to do, you should watch him on the Senate floor. He needs to learn the art of bipartisan compromise, as do the Republicans. That is the way to get things done.

I will agree with you that Obama is a good man but certainly not an effective leader.

 

[rossihunter2]

I will agree with you that Obama is a good man but certainly not an effective leader.

i dunno - a large majority of the world saw him as an effective and respectable leader...

 

[The Raven]

The Democrats will never vote for campaign finance reform, neither would the Republicans. They are all too greedy.

When was the vote for free community college? I missed that.

Schumer trys to obstruct anything the Republicans try to do, you should watch him on the Senate floor. He needs to learn the art of bipartisan compromise, as do the Republicans. That is the way to get things done.

I will agree with you that Obama is a good man but certainly not an effective leader.

There was no vote and that's my point. Neither McConnell nor Ryan brought it up for a vote. Kinda like how they won't bring DACA up for a vote despite promising to do so.

What does compromise look like on immigration? What does compromise look like on universal healthcare? Democrats tried to compromise on free college with free community college and Republicans wouldn't even budge on that. So, tell me. What the hell does compromise look like and how does it substantively change anything at all?

The notion that he wasn't effective is laughable. He was highly effective, whether you agree with his policies or not. If it's any indication, his national and international approval ratings continue to increase.

 

[Inqui]

It's just showmanship. Rand talks a big game but has never, ever delivered. GOP's in power so let's see what they do. Can Rand whip the votes? I doubt it. He never has. He and his father are undoubtedly the smartest people in the right wing but they have never delivered on anything at all. Whether that says more about them, the GOP, or GOP voters, I dunno.

What bugs me is when people use blanket statements as a substitute for actual facts, as if simply making a statement also provides a carte blanche to assume it's true. Foreign aid has a small amount of strategic value but with the degree to which people overestimate it (on average people think it accounts for 31 per cent of spending - underline added for the hyperlink) it's really just a political football and a great way to make it look like a politician's doing something without actually doing anything. Immigration's another one where it seems like facts and substance have no place in the discussions.

The government's numbers only look bloated on a nominal level and that's because the US is a big economy with a lot of people and a lot of them wealthy. The US tax take is 26% of its GDP, and before the "taxation is theft" crowd says that number's too high, the OECD average is 34.8%. Tax havens Switzerland and Luxembourg are 35% and 36.5% respectively - this stuff's available on Wikipedia for anyone who's happy to spend 10 seconds searching for it. Likewise Trading Economics is a treasure trove of official data where you can go back decades for any country in the world for any economic measure. You can look at Somalia's growth rate in the 1980s if you're so inclined (it was pretty much stagnant in 1980 btw). Here's the US over three years for anyone interested.

There's no excuse for people to make statements absent facts, but I guess that's modern political discourse for you.

 

[JO_75]

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe has decided to step down 2 months before his retirement in March. Hmmmm.... on the day the votes were in to release the memo? Looks like he knows what is in the memo that would make him apart of the corruption along with Comey. Wouldn't be surprised if it came out he and Comey worked alongside Hilary in deleting the emails or something that aided Hilary to avoid prosecution. Hopefully whatever is in the Memo, send Comey, McCabe, Hilary and whoever else involved to jail for a very long time.

 

[rossihunter2]

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe has decided to step down 2 months before his retirement in March. Hmmmm.... on the day the votes were in to release the memo? Looks like he knows what is in the memo that would make him apart of the corruption along with Comey. Wouldn't be surprised if it came out he and Comey worked alongside Hilary in deleting the emails or something that aided Hilary to avoid prosecution. Hopefully whatever is in the Memo, send Comey, McCabe, Hilary and whoever else involved to jail for a very long time.

pretty sure he stepped down before the memo was voted to be released
it also sounds like his decision was more influenced by trump's targeting of him than anything else

 

[JO_75]

pretty sure he stepped down before the memo was voted to be released
it also sounds like his decision was more influenced by trump's targeting of him than anything else

Ok so what if Trump is targeting him? If he has nothing to hide then don't step down and stay until the retirement in March. Like I said, think he stepped down because he knows he is going to get in a ton of trouble. From what I have read, several congressmen who have saw the memo say it is "devastating" and that it will be costly.

 

[The Raven]

I think it's hysterical that some GOP morons think the FBI and Comey were in the bag for Clinton -- despite Comey reopening the investigation into Hillary just days before the election, and with nothing to show for it. If the FBI was in the bag for Hill, Comey wouldn't have done that -- it killed her chances. I'm forever amazed by the idiocy of the far right.

 

[Somerset Ravens]

There was no vote and that's my point. Neither McConnell nor Ryan brought it up for a vote. Kinda like how they won't bring DACA up for a vote despite promising to do so.

What does compromise look like on immigration? What does compromise look like on universal healthcare? Democrats tried to compromise on free college with free community college and Republicans wouldn't even budge on that. So, tell me. What the hell does compromise look like and how does it substantively change anything at all?

The notion that he wasn't effective is laughable. He was highly effective, whether you agree with his policies or not. If it's any indication, his national and international approval ratings continue to increase.

I understand Trump is brokering a compromise on immigration, it includes DACA and increased border security. I would hope for more but it is a start. What did the Democrats offer as a compromise for free community college?

Do you not know what compromise is? You must not be married.

Please explain to me how Obama was an effective leader.

 

[rossihunter2]

Ok so what if Trump is targeting him? If he has nothing to hide then don't step down and stay until the retirement in March. Like I said, think he stepped down because he knows he is going to get in a ton of trouble. From what I have read, several congressmen who have saw the memo say it is "devastating" and that it will be costly.

because the FBI is supposed to be separated from the state
i think its bizarre that republicans forget that the FBI literally reopened an investigation into clinton just before the election despite the fact that their remit is to avoid actively affecting an election
to think that the FBI has some vendetta against Trump is ridiculous...

which is why its dangerous for Trump to be targeting top officials in the FBI

ive also seen several congressmen suggest that the demo is being released despite Democrat requests to view the underlying classified documents in the Nunes Memo which is supposedly a cherry picked 4 pages out of 50 pages and the Republicans have also refused to release the Democratic memo

From Ted Lieu: "Republicans also won't release the Democratic memo. Why? Because they know the actual facts decimate the misleading and inaccurate"

the repeated suggestion is that the Nunes Memo completely ignores the underlying evidence...

and if you think Lieu is just a pure democratic shill that would ignore the fact that he was literally part of a bipartisan group on the FISA amendments at the end of 2017 for one example...