The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[Oldfaithful]

View attachment 453 The chemicals in the water are turning the friggin frogs friggin gay

 

[DeVito52]

Lmao “nobody has actually ever died in Indiana”

 

[Willbacker]

I mean, I am a bleeding heart Democrat, so I do feel that way to an extent. I don't think Republicans are inherently bad, but there's very little I agree with them on. Republicans have consistently been on the wrong side of history, whether it's civil rights, healthcare, CHIP, DREAM Act, or even the last government shutdown. There isn't much the party has done policy wise to improve the lives of Americans. In recent years they've only been obstructionists. I like Eisenhower. Hell, corruption aside, Nixon was a brilliant president, on domestic and foreign affairs. I'm not voting for him, but I don't hate Governor Hogan, either. He's been solid and I generally approve. I just don't think there are a lot of Republicans at the national level, currently, that are doing things that will benefit Americans. I don't think their intent is bad but their policy is.

As for the current issue, I think it's extremely shitty that Trump, Ryan, and McConnell all agree with protecting Dreamers, but won't offer those protections in exchange for the Dems giving the nine votes to pas the CR. This is a dirty trick to blame Democrats. All three agreed to protect Dreamers to pass the budget but are withholding that from the deal to make Democrats look bad. That's just shitty. Protect the Dreamers and the CR is passed last week. Guaran-fucking-teed.

Civil rights got a lot of repub votes. CHIP was passed by a repub house and senate. Remember who the legislative branch is. Dems are now willing to kill CHIP for DACA. Trump has been very explicit on what needs to be done to get DACA passed. Dems wont budge on the issue.

 

[rossihunter2]

Civil rights got a lot of repub votes. CHIP was passed by a repub house and senate. Remember who the legislative branch is. Dems are now willing to kill CHIP for DACA. Trump has been very explicit on what needs to be done to get DACA passed. Dems wont budge on the issue.

this is trump and republican politics at its worst - why should the Democrats have to compromise on their morals and choose between CHIP and DACA - there is no part of this that is the fault of the democrats... it's disgusting that the republicans are trying to frame this as democrats not caring about the children... of course they care about the children they also care about DACA and everyone who that affects too - Dems are not trying to kill CHIP at all

and let's be clear it's the republicans who have held CHIP hostage - CHIP funding was expiring at the end of September, but Republicans set it aside that month to pursue a last-ditch run at repealing Obamacare. Then in November, the House passed a CHIP extension, which would have cut Medicare and Obamacare funding to appease their most conservative members and cover the then-$8 billion price tag.

Only now with the threat of a government shutdown have the republicans decided to extend CHIP for the 6 years they can but they attached it to their short-term spending bill which they didnt have to do - thereby they created their own problem here by attaching legislation that both sides of the aisle agree on to legislation that neither side can agree on how to fix (DACA)...

it is hypocritical, ludicrous and disgusting that the GOP would now blame the democrats for CHIP
what's also stupid is that the republicans have put on an arbitrary 6 year limit on the CHIP extension when it could easily be funded for the next 10 years (and wouldnt cost the government anything) but the republicans have themselves said that they want to be able to leverage it in future...

"When you talk to CHIP advocates about this unprecedented crisis, they point out that it is these very funding deadlines that put the program in jeopardy in the first place." 2 years ago the republicans put on a 2 year extensions for the same reasoning they are putting a finite limit on it this time.

'Republicans never did come up with a grand plan to change the program this time around. Instead, CHIP became a bargaining chip, which they are putting on the table now that these government shutdown and DACA talks are in trouble. The majority has become more comfortable using CHIP as leverage — and they will say directly that they want some future opportunity to use it again.

Republicans don’t like to talk about it, but CHIP advocates say that the party has become increasingly uncomfortable with such an overwhelmingly popular entitlement program that actually serves people with higher incomes than the people on Medicaid or food stamps.

“They’re really aware that it would be a valid line of questioning for somebody to ask them: ‘You love CHIP, why do you hate Medicaid?’” one advocate who has followed the debate for years told me. “They’re really not that different, in either their goals or in their structure.”'

Republicans yet again showing themselves to be devil spawn when it comes to the presence of any morality in politics at all

yet again you are showing the ability to either not acknowledge nuance in politics or actual intentional ignorance about nuance...

i can understand all of this from a cursory understanding from overseas news (so it's not even like you can accuse me of being swayed by liberal US news networks either)

 

[The Raven]

Civil rights got a lot of repub votes. CHIP was passed by a repub house and senate. Remember who the legislative branch is. Dems are now willing to kill CHIP for DACA. Trump has been very explicit on what needs to be done to get DACA passed. Dems wont budge on the issue.

This isn't even remotely accurate. Please don't say stupid shit.

 

[allblackraven]

View attachment 453 The chemicals in the water are turning the friggin frogs friggin gay

Lol, this is funny. Lactose intolerance in Wisconsin, rofl.

 

[Somerset Ravens]

I mean, I am a bleeding heart Democrat, so I do feel that way to an extent. I don't think Republicans are inherently bad, but there's very little I agree with them on. Republicans have consistently been on the wrong side of history, whether it's civil rights, healthcare, CHIP, DREAM Act, or even the last government shutdown. There isn't much the party has done policy wise to improve the lives of Americans. In recent years they've only been obstructionists. I like Eisenhower. Hell, corruption aside, Nixon was a brilliant president, on domestic and foreign affairs. I'm not voting for him, but I don't hate Governor Hogan, either. He's been solid and I generally approve. I just don't think there are a lot of Republicans at the national level, currently, that are doing things that will benefit Americans. I don't think their intent is bad but their policy is.

As for the current issue, I think it's extremely shitty that Trump, Ryan, and McConnell all agree with protecting Dreamers, but won't offer those protections in exchange for the Dems giving the nine votes to pas the CR. This is a dirty trick to blame Democrats. All three agreed to protect Dreamers to pass the budget but are withholding that from the deal to make Democrats look bad. That's just shitty. Protect the Dreamers and the CR is passed last week. Guaran-fucking-teed.

I certainly agree with you that Dreamers need to be protected, but it needs to be done as part of immigration reform that is desperately needed. Both parties agree on that. Doing things piecemeal is a bad way to do things, do the entire job.

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. If protecting the dreamers is that important to the democrats why won't they make a deal?

 

[DeVito52]

this is trump and republican politics at its worst - why should the Democrats have to compromise on their morals and choose between CHIP and DACA - there is no part of this that is the fault of the democrats... it's disgusting that the republicans are trying to frame this as democrats not caring about the children... of course they care about the children they also care about DACA and everyone who that affects too - Dems are not trying to kill CHIP at all

and let's be clear it's the republicans who have held CHIP hostage - CHIP funding was expiring at the end of September, but Republicans set it aside that month to pursue a last-ditch run at repealing Obamacare. Then in November, the House passed a CHIP extension, which would have cut Medicare and Obamacare funding to appease their most conservative members and cover the then-$8 billion price tag.

Only now with the threat of a government shutdown have the republicans decided to extend CHIP for the 6 years they can but they attached it to their short-term spending bill which they didnt have to do - thereby they created their own problem here by attaching legislation that both sides of the aisle agree on to legislation that neither side can agree on how to fix (DACA)...

it is hypocritical, ludicrous and disgusting that the GOP would now blame the democrats for CHIP
what's also stupid is that the republicans have put on an arbitrary 6 year limit on the CHIP extension when it could easily be funded for the next 10 years (and wouldnt cost the government anything) but the republicans have themselves said that they want to be able to leverage it in future...

"When you talk to CHIP advocates about this unprecedented crisis, they point out that it is these very funding deadlines that put the program in jeopardy in the first place." 2 years ago the republicans put on a 2 year extensions for the same reasoning they are putting a finite limit on it this time.

'Republicans never did come up with a grand plan to change the program this time around. Instead, CHIP became a bargaining chip, which they are putting on the table now that these government shutdown and DACA talks are in trouble. The majority has become more comfortable using CHIP as leverage — and they will say directly that they want some future opportunity to use it again.

Republicans don’t like to talk about it, but CHIP advocates say that the party has become increasingly uncomfortable with such an overwhelmingly popular entitlement program that actually serves people with higher incomes than the people on Medicaid or food stamps.

“They’re really aware that it would be a valid line of questioning for somebody to ask them: ‘You love CHIP, why do you hate Medicaid?’” one advocate who has followed the debate for years told me. “They’re really not that different, in either their goals or in their structure.”'

Republicans yet again showing themselves to be devil spawn when it comes to the presence of any morality in politics at all

yet again you are showing the ability to either not acknowledge nuance in politics or actual intentional ignorance about nuance...

i can understand all of this from a cursory understanding from overseas news (so it's not even like you can accuse me of being swayed by liberal US news networks either)

You can not act neutral to the argument yet outright say the Dems have no fault in this. Let me start off by saying I disagree with many things both parties do and say. The Republicans knew they would need some Dem votes to keep the government going, but didn’t include them in making their bills. Which is stupid. They are very much at fault for that.

However, it is never a good look for the party that is denying the funding for a reason that is completely irrelevant to the funding. “Why should the Democrats have to compromise on their morals and choose between DACA and CHIP”....buddy...first off, this is the government. Government is compromise. What? Do you think everyone gets exactly what they want? No. That’s stupid. If there is no compromise in government, the government does not function. (Which is why it has trouble functioning). Also, Trump has said DACA can be discussed at a later time. It doesn’t even end until March, yet the Dems are denying our government to continue running for that reason. Give me a break. Both parties have an argument for who is at fault. Polls indicate most of America thinks preventing a shut down is more important then extending DACA at this point in time. Hmm.

 

[rossihunter2]

You can not act neutral to the argument yet outright say the Dems have no fault in this. Let me start off by saying I disagree with many things both parties do and say. The Republicans knew they would need some Dem votes to keep the government going, but didn’t include them in making their bills. Which is stupid. They are very much at fault for that.

However, it is never a good look for the party that is denying the funding for a reason that is completely irrelevant to the funding. “Why should the Democrats have to compromise on their morals and choose between DACA and CHIP”....buddy...first off, this is the government. Government is compromise. What? Do you think everyone gets exactly what they want? No. That’s stupid. If there is no compromise in government, the government does not function. (Which is why it has trouble functioning). Also, Trump has said DACA can be discussed at a later time. It doesn’t even end until March, yet the Dems are denying our government to continue running for that reason. Give me a break. Both parties have an argument for who is at fault. Polls indicate most of America thinks preventing a shut down is more important then extending DACA at this point in time. Hmm.

Of course compromise is important but CHIP is not a partisan issue - both sides of the table would extend it - the GOP have caused this entire issue by putting its extension in a bill that it doesn’t need to be involved in - if the GOP really gave a shit about CHIP then they would have put an extension on the table months ago (when it actually expired) separate to what they are doing now - it’s callous and manipulative politics at its worst

The democrats are only denying funding because the GOP tied the funding of CHIP with something unrelated and suddenly the republicans are framing this lack of funding as CHIP vs DACA when in fact funding CHIP costs virtually nothing now and is unrelated to the discussions on DACA

Why should the democrats be bullied into backing down on DACA because of the GOP creating this issue? It’s naive to criticise the democrats when they aren’t the reason this situation exists.

And this point about DACA vs shutdown again just extenuates the problem with the framing on this issue - it’s bullying again. The GOP realise they won’t win/persuade the democrats so they use they play with brinkmanship and ultimately frame the democrats as unreasonable.

I think the problem with me conceding the democrats are at fault here is the fact that they aren’t being asked to compromise, they are being asked to do something they had no i or in and don’t agree with. They therefore have a responsibility to the people they represent not to back down. If the GOP has not compromised then why should the Democrats? It would be all take no give which isn’t compromise at all. It’s capitulation.

And as far as I’m aware Trump didn’t say DACA would be discussed at a later time, he has said DACA would be got rid of by a March 2018 deadline or something to that extent. He also is the reason why the GOP suddenly pulled out of a floor debate on immigration policy. So forgive me if I can forgive democrats for not taking trump at his word given that he lies consistently and often and changes his mind incredibly frequently.

So yes I do think the democrats in this situation are mostly faultless given the circumstances.

 

[DeVito52]

Are you trying to tell me that the bill won’t pass because of CHIP? That’s not what’s happening...

Democrats want DACA to be a part of this bill and that’s why they are not passing it. The Republicans screwed up and didn’t involve the Dems so they threw in CHIP to sweeten the pot and maybe hope it persuaded the dems to vote for it. CHIP is not why the government is shutting down. The Republicans don’t want DACA and the Dems do.

You must be unaware of how corrupt and manipulative all politicians are. It is not just republicans lol. Democrats have used these same tactics through the years. Both of these parties bully each other and manipulate each other and hate each other. Trying to blame Trump for all of it is ignorant.

 

[gtalk12]

You called Trump a bitch and said his mouth is whats gonna cause us to be attacked but yet what set the stage is not important.

So? Would you like me to call Obama or one of the Clintons a bitch too? I will GLADLY do so.

So because the idiots before started something it means our current chief should continue it?

 

[allblackraven]

View image on Twitter

https://twitter.com/CapLounge/status/954425730942799872
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Available at 12:01AM

7:50 AM - Jan 20, 2018

 

[The Raven]

I certainly agree with you that Dreamers need to be protected, but it needs to be done as part of immigration reform that is desperately needed. Both parties agree on that. Doing things piecemeal is a bad way to do things, do the entire job.

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. If protecting the dreamers is that important to the democrats why won't they make a deal?

They did make a deal. They are fully prepared to pass the budget the second the senate protects dreamers. We're waiting on Mitch to hold up his end of the deal.

 

[Somerset Ravens]

They did make a deal. They are fully prepared to pass the budget the second the senate protects dreamers. We're waiting on Mitch to hold up his end of the deal.

Keeping the government open in exchange for giving the dreamers citizenship is not a deal. That is one sided. The 44 democrats voted to close the government. I told neither party is worth a crap.

 

[The Raven]

Keeping the government open in exchange for giving the dreamers citizenship is not a deal. That is one sided. The 44 democrats voted to close the government. I told neither party is worth a crap.

Except you seem to be missing the part where Trump, Mitch, and Ryan have all publicly said they support Dreamers and would protect them. Seems like that's the makings of the deal, no? Seems a pretty good deal, too.

Congressional Republicans hate brown people so much they won't even protect Dreamers to keep the government open. That's all they have to do. It's not hard. Just reinstate DACA and the deal is done and the government is good to go for another month.

If protecting people that came here through no fault of their own in pursuit of a better life is one sided then we really have to re-evaluate who we are and what we stand for as a country. What the fuck ever happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

 

[Inqui]

If protecting people that came here through no fault of their own in pursuit of a better life is one sided then we really have to re-evaluate who we are and what we stand for as a country. What the fuck ever happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

 

[Willbacker]

this is trump and republican politics at its worst - why should the Democrats have to compromise on their morals and choose between CHIP and DACA - there is no part of this that is the fault of the democrats... it's disgusting that the republicans are trying to frame this as democrats not caring about the children... of course they care about the children they also care about DACA and everyone who that affects too - Dems are not trying to kill CHIP at all

and let's be clear it's the republicans who have held CHIP hostage - CHIP funding was expiring at the end of September, but Republicans set it aside that month to pursue a last-ditch run at repealing Obamacare. Then in November, the House passed a CHIP extension, which would have cut Medicare and Obamacare funding to appease their most conservative members and cover the then-$8 billion price tag.

Only now with the threat of a government shutdown have the republicans decided to extend CHIP for the 6 years they can but they attached it to their short-term spending bill which they didnt have to do - thereby they created their own problem here by attaching legislation that both sides of the aisle agree on to legislation that neither side can agree on how to fix (DACA)...

it is hypocritical, ludicrous and disgusting that the GOP would now blame the democrats for CHIP
what's also stupid is that the republicans have put on an arbitrary 6 year limit on the CHIP extension when it could easily be funded for the next 10 years (and wouldnt cost the government anything) but the republicans have themselves said that they want to be able to leverage it in future...

"When you talk to CHIP advocates about this unprecedented crisis, they point out that it is these very funding deadlines that put the program in jeopardy in the first place." 2 years ago the republicans put on a 2 year extensions for the same reasoning they are putting a finite limit on it this time.

'Republicans never did come up with a grand plan to change the program this time around. Instead, CHIP became a bargaining chip, which they are putting on the table now that these government shutdown and DACA talks are in trouble. The majority has become more comfortable using CHIP as leverage — and they will say directly that they want some future opportunity to use it again.

Republicans don’t like to talk about it, but CHIP advocates say that the party has become increasingly uncomfortable with such an overwhelmingly popular entitlement program that actually serves people with higher incomes than the people on Medicaid or food stamps.

“They’re really aware that it would be a valid line of questioning for somebody to ask them: ‘You love CHIP, why do you hate Medicaid?’” one advocate who has followed the debate for years told me. “They’re really not that different, in either their goals or in their structure.”'

Republicans yet again showing themselves to be devil spawn when it comes to the presence of any morality in politics at all

yet again you are showing the ability to either not acknowledge nuance in politics or actual intentional ignorance about nuance...

i can understand all of this from a cursory understanding from overseas news (so it's not even like you can accuse me of being swayed by liberal US news networks either)

Man where do I start with all the disinformation right here. Lets start at the beginning. Obama created an unconstitutional executive order on DACA so therefore it was never actual law and don't forget the Dems had complete power in 2009-10 and did NOTHING!! on immigration. Now CHIP is in the funding packagae and the Dems agree with everything in the package but it does not include DACA which the legislative branch has until March 5th to come up with a solution which Trump rightfully left on them to come up with something. Now Dems are shutting the govt down cuz they cant get their way as the minority party. Should the minority party get everything and the majority get nothing. Doesn't that sound stupid to you?? The majority party wants an end to chain migration, the useless visa lottery and funding for the wall and the dems don't want to do none of it. Therefore Schumer Shutdown.

OK some of your falsities. First Trump actually worked with the Dems on the Sept 30th extension bypassing Ryan and McConnell and they did nothing for the funding of CHIP (Dems involved in decision) and you also say CHIP costs the govt nothing. Pardon. Then you say Republicans don't want to talk about CHIP becuz it helps higher income. That's just complete bull and strictly an opinion of yours and a wrong one at that. Then you talk about news networks. The BBC which is publically funded is waaay to the left.

 

[Willbacker]

This isn't even remotely accurate. Please don't say stupid shit.

Everything I said is correct.

 

[Willbacker]

So? Would you like me to call Obama or one of the Clintons a bitch too? I will GLADLY do so.

So because the idiots before started something it means our current chief should continue it?

Yes I would.

Our current chief is dealing with the hand that was dealt to him.

 

[RavensMania]

I can say I’ve voted on both sides of the aisle. I want the better president for the country, not just party lines.