Lamar Jackson

[drjohnnyfever]

I think my overall point was more so that the Ravens had a windows of cheap pay for their quarterback and didn't do enough to capitalize. I'm fully on board with making his life easier and not asking him to play the role of hero every week.

Now, as you said, would the coaches know what to do with more talent? I don't know. I don't think Roman would, so assuming Roman stuck around, maybe that would be a mistake. But, that also lends itself to whether Roman should have been fired sooner which is totally different discussion.

Again, I don't disagree with you, yet they did spend money last year and I think demonstrated -contrary to what you seemed to be arguing - a financial loyalty to Lamar with OBJ and others. The problem was injuries to RB last year. I tend to agree with you more from seasons before, but then Lamar was injured, so it was kind of moot; but I do think they were trying.

My point is, and I know it's beleaguered by me and others, at this point - the team looks sloppy year after year despite the quality or veteran-nature of the people we bring in to support Lamar. The outcomes and look on the field is strikingly the same -thru multiple OC's.

I said while we were going thru all the extend Lamar stuff, I only want him extended if they move on from JH. Many disagreed - maybe you - don't remember, but I feel like we are seeing the JH-way, not the Lamar Jackson way. I don't care that John would be picked up immediately by another team or any of that. There just needs to be something different in this approach. We have all seen this game enough to be able to almost quote every line of it's narrative into the inevitable loss.

It's just sad to see, over and over again.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Again, I don't disagree with you, yet they did spend money last year and I think demonstrated -contrary to what you seemed to be arguing - a financial loyalty to Lamar with OBJ and others. The problem was injuries to RB last year. I tend to agree with you more from seasons before, but then Lamar was injured, so it was kind of moot; but I do think they were trying.

I want to focus in on this, but first I will say I'm not a Harbaugh guy. I think the Ravens could certainly have worse coaching, but I don't think that can stop you from trying to get better. I personally want an offensive minded coach to be the head coach.

With that said, I absolutely agree the Ravens focused on building around Lamar last year and what happened? Lamar wins MVP and makes the AFCCG. He looks the best he has as a pure passer. The Ravens look incredibly balanced as an offense.

I don't understand how the Ravens saw 2023 and moved backward from that.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

I want to focus in on this, but first I will say I'm not a Harbaugh guy. I think the Ravens could certainly have worse coaching, but I don't think that can stop you from trying to get better. I personally want an offensive minded coach to be the head coach.

With that said, I absolutely agree the Ravens focused on building around Lamar last year and what happened? Lamar wins MVP and makes the AFCCG. He looks the best he has as a pure passer. The Ravens look incredibly balanced as an offense.

I don't understand how the Ravens saw 2023 and moved backward from that.

Agreed. Two big DEF contracts will do that to a roster, tho. I would also love an OFF minded HC coach. Cheers!

 

[RaineV1]

I do know (not think, know) winning a Super Bowl is incredibly difficult and few teams are capable of doing it.

I'm just frustrated that the philosophy seems to be to spend as much as possible on the defense and ask Lamar to be the hero and lead the Ravens offense no matter what garbage surrounds him. I don't understand not wanting to make his life easier.

Hell, I'm 99.99% certain the biggest factor in Brady going to Tampa was their offense was loaded with talent to make his life easier. Every quarterback wants that.

I don't think that paints a fully accurate picture. The Ravens have two first round picks at WR, a top 5 pick at LT, a first round C, and they paid for the top RB. Not to mention two of the best receiving TEs in the league. It's straight up wrong to say they haven't put talent around Lamar.

Plenty of other coaches would be doing a lot more with this roster on offense.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

I don't think that paints a fully accurate picture. The Ravens have two first round picks at WR, a top 5 pick at LT, a first round C, and they paid for the top RB. Not to mention two of the best receiving TEs in the league. It's straight up wrong to say they haven't put talent around Lamar.

Plenty of other coaches would be doing a lot more with this roster on offense.

The two first round picks on the O Line and the big money RB don't count for as much if the other 60% of the line is shaky, but I take your point. The Ravens do have some talent on offense.

 

[rossihunter2]

The two first round picks on the O Line and the big money RB don't count for as much if the other 60% of the line is shaky, but I take your point. The Ravens do have some talent on offense.

We did just invest another 2nd rounder into that OL too

 

[RaineV1]

The two first round picks on the O Line and the big money RB don't count for as much if the other 60% of the line is shaky, but I take your point. The Ravens do have some talent on offense.

Honestly if they just let Rosengarten start at RT and anyone else at RG the line would look a lot better.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I don't think that paints a fully accurate picture. The Ravens have two first round picks at WR, a top 5 pick at LT, a first round C, and they paid for the top RB. Not to mention two of the best receiving TEs in the league. It's straight up wrong to say they haven't put talent around Lamar.

Plenty of other coaches would be doing a lot more with this roster on offense.

The issue is that top RB (definitely not the league's top running back anymore, but I digress) is 30 and a poor scheme fit, one of those first round wide receivers is cheeks, and Likely isn't one of the best receiving tight ends in the NFL, even if he is trending positively and is exciting.

Not to mention the offensive line is weak at two positions and iffy at another.

 

[UPennChem]

The issue is that top RB (definitely not the league's top running back anymore, but I digress) is 30 and a poor scheme fit, one of those first round wide receivers is cheeks, and Likely isn't one of the best receiving tight ends in the NFL, even if he is trending positively and is exciting.

Not to mention the offensive line is weak at two positions and iffy at another.

Thank you. Yeah I'm not trying to be rude but so many times the discussion around oh well they were a so and so round draft pick is worthless.

Like it doesn't matter EDC thought wouldn't it be nice to give Lamar a WR? If that WR doesn't pan out (you can tell quickly) by bot fixing the problem you're left just looking stupid.

EDC clearly has an issue with "missing" on high draft picks. What im saying is he sticks with them even if they don't deserve it. He's willing Bateman into being JJ even though it's never gonna happen. Probably why Faalele is the RG, because he's a Decosta favorite. I think he just wants to have been right.

Ultimately it leaves you with a Zay Flowers and busto OL and a RB that makes no sense

 

[rossihunter2]

Thank you. Yeah I'm not trying to be rude but so many times the discussion around oh well they were a so and so round draft pick is worthless.

Like it doesn't matter EDC thought wouldn't it be nice to give Lamar a WR? If that WR doesn't pan out (you can tell quickly) by bot fixing the problem you're left just looking stupid.

EDC clearly has an issue with "missing" on high draft picks. What im saying is he sticks with them even if they don't deserve it. He's willing Bateman into being JJ even though it's never gonna happen. Probably why Faalele is the RG, because he's a Decosta favorite. I think he just wants to have been right.

Ultimately it leaves you with a Zay Flowers and busto OL and a RB that makes no sense

i mean Bate had one bad play yesterday but otherwise looked good

i guess my question is... how are you guys fixing this roster construction - if you're swapping henry for zeitler... you still have the same receiving group and now you have justice hill and no one else at RB...

who are you picking instead of nate wiggins in the 1st round that fixes any problems?

we giving up on RR for who? and then how are we solving RT?

which WR on the market do we sign instead of Nelly for that price?

do we not re-sign Madubuike?
do we not bring back KVN?
do we not bring back Maulet?

EDC doesnt pick the team that plays, that's all on Harbs - EDC's not making Harbs play Faalele at RG, he's not making Harbs play Mekari at RT... in fact, you could argue that his offseason choices would suggest that he thought that the right side would be Cleveland at RG with Faalele/Mekari as the incumbent at RT with RR hopefully winning that job

we're in a fallow year in terms of financial resources... was always gonna be a year of hard choices and taking our medicine

 

[UPennChem]

i mean Bate had one bad play yesterday but otherwise looked good

i guess my question is... how are you guys fixing this roster construction - if you're swapping henry for zeitler... you still have the same receiving group and now you have justice hill and no one else at RB...

who are you picking instead of nate wiggins in the 1st round that fixes any problems?

we giving up on RR for who? and then how are we solving RT?

which WR on the market do we sign instead of Nelly for that price?

do we not re-sign Madubuike?
do we not bring back KVN?
do we not bring back Maulet?

EDC doesnt pick the team that plays, that's all on Harbs - EDC's not making Harbs play Faalele at RG, he's not making Harbs play Mekari at RT... in fact, you could argue that his offseason choices would suggest that he thought that the right side would be Cleveland at RG with Faalele/Mekari as the incumbent at RT with RR hopefully winning that job

we're in a fallow year in terms of financial resources... was always gonna be a year of hard choices and taking our medicine

Many of those questions are quite easy. To the point that I can enumerate all of them. But to give a general answer you don't pay Henry, and make you relatively minimal concessions on defense. Like you saw what the defense looked like out there without Maulet and Wiggins. Nelly doesn't do almost anything and is 100% replaceable. Deonte Harty was a big joke of a million dollars.

The point is even you said there's a pretty decent shot the Faalele experiment has cost us 2 games this season. I totally agree. And that's just 1 guy, but the impact has been massive. I guarantee that if you kept Zeitler and made your tiny concessions on defense and or just not be stupid and bring in Henry the team is certainly not 0-2.

As a note, I can't believe Harbs looks at the film and continues to put Faalele out there if there's not some pressure on him to do so. If there isn't that pressure, he's in the running for stupidest coach of all time. Faalele is on his ass constantly, slow, and single handedly destroying the right handed run game.

 

[rossihunter2]

Many of those questions are quite easy. To the point that I can enumerate all of them. But to give a general answer you don't pay Henry, and make you relatively minimal concessions on defense. Like you saw what the defense looked like out there without Maulet and Wiggins. Nelly doesn't do almost anything and is 100% replaceable. Deonte Harty was a big joke of a million dollars.

The point is even you said there's a pretty decent shot the Faalele experiment has cost us 2 games this season. I totally agree. And that's just 1 guy, but the impact has been massive. I guarantee that if you kept Zeitler and made your tiny concessions on defense and or just not be stupid and bring in Henry the team is certainly not 0-2.

As a note, I can't believe Harbs looks at the film and continues to put Faalele out there if there's not some pressure on him to do so. If there isn't that pressure, he's in the running for stupidest coach of all time. Faalele is on his ass constantly, slow, and single handedly destroying the right handed run game.

so basically you're saying EDC fucked up but your only thing you'd concretely change is Zeitler for Henry?
the only other big change is Wiggins for someone else... but who is the someone else we pick at the end of the 1st round?

you say Nelly is replaceable but im not sure that he is for a 2.1m cap hit? who are we getting for less that replaces him?
you say get rid of Harty and Maulet... their combined cap hit this year is 2.6m... where are you allocating that money that changes fundamentally how you feel about this roster?

if that's really your only concerns, that's really just 1 move you don't like, and if it's only 1 move, then he can't have done that bad of a job then...

 

[Adreme]

i mean Bate had one bad play yesterday but otherwise looked good

i guess my question is... how are you guys fixing this roster construction - if you're swapping henry for zeitler... you still have the same receiving group and now you have justice hill and no one else at RB...

who are you picking instead of nate wiggins in the 1st round that fixes any problems?

we giving up on RR for who? and then how are we solving RT?

which WR on the market do we sign instead of Nelly for that price?

do we not re-sign Madubuike?
do we not bring back KVN?
do we not bring back Maulet?

EDC doesnt pick the team that plays, that's all on Harbs - EDC's not making Harbs play Faalele at RG, he's not making Harbs play Mekari at RT... in fact, you could argue that his offseason choices would suggest that he thought that the right side would be Cleveland at RG with Faalele/Mekari as the incumbent at RT with RR hopefully winning that job

we're in a fallow year in terms of financial resources... was always gonna be a year of hard choices and taking our medicine

I mean Zeitler probably makes RR better. I am not saying Faalele is as bad as people are saying as pretty much big play was a 1 on 1 with Crosby which feels like it should just never be the case. Crosby is a top 5 defensive player and was just not getting the respect someone on his level is due and I cannot figure out why.

That being said I kinda think if you just have a top 5 OL then you can just have a running game especially with Lamar at QB. I have to assume Cleveland is the worst practice player of all time that they basically converted Faalele from T to G in the offseason specifically so that he would not get the job. That is a staggering lack of faith in a player.

The biggest problem on the OLine is that side by side you have a rookie and a converted T starting so in theory both need time but neither can cover for the other really so the right side just looks weak. If Zeitler was on the team then help could basically be sent RRs way while he gets up to speed.

 

[rossihunter2]

I mean Zeitler probably makes RR better. I am not saying Faalele is as bad as people are saying as pretty much big play was a 1 on 1 with Crosby which feels like it should just never be the case. Crosby is a top 5 defensive player and was just not getting the respect someone on his level is due and I cannot figure out why.

That being said I kinda think if you just have a top 5 OL then you can just have a running game especially with Lamar at QB. I have to assume Cleveland is the worst practice player of all time that they basically converted Faalele from T to G in the offseason specifically so that he would not get the job. That is a staggering lack of faith in a player.

The biggest problem on the OLine is that side by side you have a rookie and a converted T starting so in theory both need time but neither can cover for the other really so the right side just looks weak. If Zeitler was on the team then help could basically be sent RRs way while he gets up to speed.

faalele lost multiple reps throughout the game
the crosby sack wasn't him 1v1 either, it was a simple T/E line game up front that he was too slow to process

im not saying that Zeit doesnt improve this team, just saying that it's 1 choice... and if a 34 year old guard is the 1 change people would make to this roster, then it feels like we should be able to work around it

 

[OURavensFan]

faalele lost multiple reps throughout the game
the crosby sack wasn't him 1v1 either, it was a simple T/E line game up front that he was too slow to process

im not saying that Zeit doesnt improve this team, just saying that it's 1 choice... and if a 34 year old guard is the 1 change people would make to this roster, then it feels like we should be able to work around it

This game started to feel like a game we’d lose midway through the 3rd. We have got to find a way to beat the Cowboys, beat them, get the bank rocking for the Bills, beat them, then between Cinci and Wash you’re gonna be 3-3 at worst

 

[UPennChem]

so basically you're saying EDC fucked up but your only thing you'd concretely change is Zeitler for Henry?
the only other big change is Wiggins for someone else... but who is the someone else we pick at the end of the 1st round?

you say Nelly is replaceable but im not sure that he is for a 2.1m cap hit? who are we getting for less that replaces him?
you say get rid of Harty and Maulet... their combined cap hit this year is 2.6m... where are you allocating that money that changes fundamentally how you feel about this roster?

if that's really your only concerns, that's really just 1 move you don't like, and if it's only 1 move, then he can't have done that bad of a job then...

I just focused on the biggest issue and how obvious it was and how easy it was to not let that happen.

I've been very clear in the past I think his entire zag when everyone else zigs strategy is stupid. He fundamentally doesn't conform to the tried and true strategy of late of

Top QB
WR1
Strong OL
Elite pass rush

 

[OURavensFan]

I just focused on the biggest issue and how obvious it was and how easy it was to not let that happen.

I've been very clear in the past I think his entire zag when everyone else zigs strategy is stupid. He fundamentally doesn't conform to the tried and true strategy of late of

Top QB
WR1
Strong OL
Elite pass rush

Roquan and Hamilton were ghosts

 

[rossihunter2]

I just focused on the biggest issue and how obvious it was and how easy it was to not let that happen.

I've been very clear in the past I think his entire zag when everyone else zigs strategy is stupid. He fundamentally doesn't conform to the tried and true strategy of late of

Top QB
WR1
Strong OL
Elite pass rush

how are we zagging then?

we have a top QB
we have someone we hope is a WR1
we have a developing pass rush with the chance to be elite

the only place we're lacking is the OL and we had that last year... we're in a retooling year, not fundamentally changing our philosophy on offence

in those terms... we drafted bate (WR) and Oweh (EDGE) in 2021, we drafted Linderbaum (OL) and Ojabo (EDGE) in 2022, we drafted Zay (WR) in 2023, we drafted RR (OL) in 2024

the only top picks in that time frame that dont fit in the above mould are Hamilton (who's possibly going to say that's not a good pick) and Wiggins who we picked this year after OL and WR and EDGE were all picked clean...

idk why you think we're zagging...

 

[UPennChem]

how are we zagging then?

we have a top QB
we have someone we hope is a WR1
we have a developing pass rush with the chance to be elite

the only place we're lacking is the OL and we had that last year... we're in a retooling year, not fundamentally changing our philosophy on offence

in those terms... we drafted bate (WR) and Oweh (EDGE) in 2021, we drafted Linderbaum (OL) and Ojabo (EDGE) in 2022, we drafted Zay (WR) in 2023, we drafted RR (OL) in 2024

the only top picks in that time frame that dont fit in the above mould are Hamilton (who's possibly going to say that's not a good pick) and Wiggins who we picked this year after OL and WR and EDGE were all picked clean...

idk why you think we're zagging...

We do have the QB.

Zay is maybe a WR1 but probably not. If he is, he's definitely not top 10.

Regardless, to this point maybe we're ok with formula. Maybe.

OL needs to be excellent and this line is a disaster. Maybe Ben Cleveland stabilizes and makes it competent. But we probably also need full time Roger and he needs to mature quickly. Plus health.

EDGE is so far possibly OK. It was a huge risk to roll out KVN another year older and rely on Oweh and Ojabo after Clowney left. So far that risk looks like it is paying off. Please stay healthy.

What I mean by zagging is the paying Earl Thomas, Marcus Williams etc huge money. Lots of off premium position drafting in higher rounds. It's not even my words, it's Eric's words. He thinks by being the best in off value positions you can get the best players and be complimentary to the teams with the best players in premium positions.

At the end of the day the single most important position group after QB in the NFL is OL. He majorly fucked that up and that's unambiguous.

 

[OURavensFan]

We do have the QB.

Zay is maybe a WR1 but probably not. If he is, he's definitely not top 10.

Regardless, to this point maybe we're ok with formula. Maybe.

OL needs to be excellent and this line is a disaster. Maybe Ben Cleveland stabilizes and makes it competent. But we probably also need full time Roger and he needs to mature quickly. Plus health.

EDGE is so far possibly OK. It was a huge risk to roll out KVN another year older and rely on Oweh and Ojabo after Clowney left. So far that risk looks like it is paying off. Please stay healthy.

What I mean by zagging is the paying Earl Thomas, Marcus Williams etc huge money. Lots of off premium position drafting in higher rounds. It's not even my words, it's Eric's words. He thinks by being the best in off value positions you can get the best players and be complimentary to the teams with the best players in premium positions.

At the end of the day the single most important position group after QB in the NFL is OL. He majorly fucked that up and that's unambiguous.

I’m afraid to type the words, but what happens if Stanley or Lindy get hurt