The Fumbles, the Lamar Injury, and the Season’s Over?

[Grim]

The issue with us throwing the ball isn’t with the throwing part, it’s the pass protection part, when the ravens have to air it out in 2025 it is downright scary seeing the backfield, so you need to run and then build off of that in order to slow the pass rush.

It’s a failure of the trenches, and the play designs needed to cover that weakness are inconsistent at best.

If we had a solid OL along with play design that can protect the qb against 4 and 5 man rushes, then I think airing it out 40+ times a game would work fine, but our qb is dangerously exposed in these situations

Well, I would disagree to an extent. This season we've seen issues in every facet

1. Receivers (TE, RB, WR) all dropping catchable balls
2. Receivers (TE, RB, WR) all turning over the ball in asinine ways (fumbles into the EZ, weird lateral passes, ball bouncing off hands to defender, uncharacteristic fumbles, etc.)
3. Quarterback (Lamar Jackson being off at times, rattled, etc.)
4. Offensive Line (poor interior play, poor center play, poor tackle play)

Simba has said it, but honestly we have not played a complete game this year. We constantly have something that was a strength become a failure. It's almost comical if it wasn't our team. We cannot play a complete, cohesive game to save our season or lives.

 

[rossihunter2]

The issue with us throwing the ball isn’t with the throwing part, it’s the pass protection part, when the ravens have to air it out in 2025 it is downright scary seeing the backfield, so you need to run and then build off of that in order to slow the pass rush.

It’s a failure of the trenches, and the play designs needed to cover that weakness are inconsistent at best.

If we had a solid OL along with play design that can protect the qb against 4 and 5 man rushes, then I think airing it out 40+ times a game would work fine, but our qb is dangerously exposed in these situations

we're also learning that only 1 of our receivers can consistently win within the structure of the play (Zay)

so if you're going to pass all day in 2025 as the ravens, you need better pass pro, and either better weapons or a scheme more built around quick throws (which somewhat negates the best parts of lamar's game)

if you want to be able to be a passing offence in 2026 you have to either fix the OL pass pro, fix the weapons or adapt the offensive scheme to have more quick hitters and fewer intermediate and deep concepts

 

[JO_75]

Looking back at that go ahead TD by Maye, our guy was about to sack him but the OL mauled him to the ground. No holding call... and of course every other hold wasn't called either. No wonder Drake stood there calm in the pocket, he knew his OL was going to be allowed to maul our guys and hold all game.

Refs need to be investigated... it was very Chiefs like letting them get away with holding. Think we have a 5 or 6 sack game if it wasn't for the holding.

 

[rossihunter2]

Sure, but its also not consistently bad. Pass protection was excellent last night. Probably the best Oline play, both in pass protection and in the run game, we've seen all season. Didn't matter. Still lost. Still didn't move the football in the air very well.

There are games where it's a problem, and there are games when it's not. Last night the Oline was a strength, not a weakness. And yet the outcome seemed very similar to a lot of other outcomes.

I'd also point out that we've had plenty of seasons with Lamar where we had, at a minimum, a top 10 Oline. And in many of those years, the emphasis was still on "run the ball a lot and stop the run".

and i think the answers for why last night's passing offence specifically didnt have a chance:
Lamar missed the whole 2nd half
No receiver outside of Zay Flowers was able to consistently get open

 

[gtalk12]

Johnathan William Harbaugh


............

 

[rmcjacket23]

we're also learning that only 1 of our receivers can consistently win within the structure of the play (Zay)

so if you're going to pass all day in 2025 as the ravens, you need better pass pro, and either better weapons or a scheme more built around quick throws (which somewhat negates the best parts of lamar's game)

if you want to be able to be a passing offence in 2026 you have to either fix the OL pass pro, fix the weapons or adapt the offensive scheme to have more quick hitters and fewer intermediate and deep concepts

Mostly true, though I think guys like Andrews, Likely and even to a certain extent, Hopkins, are supposed to be the guys they haven't been.

Regardless, I know for a fact John doesn't want to be a pass-focused offense, and I'm not convinced EDC wants to either. So it may require a culture change on both levels to make that happen.

 

[rossihunter2]

Looking back at that go ahead TD by Maye, our guy was about to sack him but the OL mauled him to the ground. No holding call... and of course every other hold wasn't called either. No wonder Drake stood there calm in the pocket, he knew his OL was going to be allowed to maul our guys and hold all game.

Refs need to be investigated... it was very Chiefs like letting them get away with holding. Think we have a 5 or 6 sack game if it wasn't for the holding.

what play are you talking about because their go ahead TD was a running play...
and no one was near Maye on either the TD or the 2pt on the previous drive either

 

[rmcjacket23]

and i think the answers for why last night's passing offence specifically didnt have a chance:
Lamar missed the whole 2nd half
No receiver outside of Zay Flowers was able to consistently get open

Fine with the Lamar thing. If you've got multiple first round WRs, an aging but still mildly effective HOF-level WR, and a couple TEs that you were allegedly willing to pay like $15M a year to, and "they can't get open" is a problem, then its time to organizationally re-assess what you want from your receivers. And comically, none of them are really being paid that well either.

I have a LOT more problems with the D than the O, which is why I find a lot of the media emphasis on pretending like Henry missing 6 plays is the difference in the game. But it's becoming more of a "yawn yawn" situation for me when fans keep emphasizing that it's about the weapons. For as long as Lamar is here, he's unlikely to get a better core of weapons than he has this year. The kinds of teams that make a much bigger commitment to weapons than what we have are teams that generally don't end up winning a lot of games. Drake Maye doesn't have close to Lamar's weapons. Wasn't a problem for him.

 

[rossihunter2]

Mostly true, though I think guys like Andrews, Likely and even to a certain extent, Hopkins, are supposed to be the guys they haven't been.

Regardless, I know for a fact John doesn't want to be a pass-focused offense, and I'm not convinced EDC wants to either. So it may require a culture change on both levels to make that happen.

i think EDC's pretty adaptable
when he first took over, the team was obsessed with putting a track team around Lamar to create space and use space in the offence

as they learned lamar's strengths (passing over the middle, intermediate throws, 2nd phase passing plays) they adapted to give him more guys who win in short areas either with positioning or quickness or feel

adapted to try and add guys with more YAC ability as the NFL evolved that way

was ahead of the game with how the NFL transitioned into multi-TE usage again

i think if you could criticise EDC philosophically it would be the level of investment in the secondary - 2 1st rounders at S, 1 1st rounder at CB, 2 massive contracts for safeties in free agency - but i do wonder if that's more organisational schematics than personal philosophy - we've seen how important competent safety play is to the functionality of the ravens defences over the entire franchise history

on the weapons side of things:
Andrews has shown an ability historically to be a consistent separator
Likely has as more of a 2nd phase separator when the play breaks down
the more i see of hopkins the more he just doesnt feel like a fit with what lamar likes as a passer - lamar doesn't like to throw the backshoulders or throw it contested on the sideline because of the low percentages - which makes, in hindsight, the hopkins signing an odd one because that fit takes away his greatest strength at this point in his career which is the catchpoint stuff (hands, body positioning and control)

 

[gtalk12]

Fine with the Lamar thing. If you've got multiple first round WRs, an aging but still mildly effective HOF-level WR, and a couple TEs that you were allegedly willing to pay like $15M a year to, and "they can't get open" is a problem, then its time to organizationally re-assess what you want from your receivers. And comically, none of them are really being paid that well either.

I have a LOT more problems with the D than the O, which is why I find a lot of the media emphasis on pretending like Henry missing 6 plays is the difference in the game. But it's becoming more of a "yawn yawn" situation for me when fans keep emphasizing that it's about the weapons. For as long as Lamar is here, he's unlikely to get a better core of weapons than he has this year. The kinds of teams that make a much bigger commitment to weapons than what we have are teams that generally don't end up winning a lot of games. Drake Maye doesn't have close to Lamar's weapons. Wasn't a problem for him.

Defense had Diggs looking like he was receiver 1 in the league again.

 

[gtalk12]

i think EDC's pretty adaptable
when he first took over, the team was obsessed with putting a track team around Lamar to create space and use space in the offence

as they learned lamar's strengths (passing over the middle, intermediate throws, 2nd phase passing plays) they adapted to give him more guys who win in short areas either with positioning or quickness or feel

adapted to try and add guys with more YAC ability as the NFL evolved that way

was ahead of the game with how the NFL transitioned into multi-TE usage again

i think if you could criticise EDC philosophically it would be the level of investment in the secondary - 2 1st rounders at S, 1 1st rounder at CB, 2 massive contracts for safeties in free agency - but i do wonder if that's more organisational schematics than personal philosophy - we've seen how important competent safety play is to the functionality of the ravens defences over the entire franchise history

on the weapons side of things:
Andrews has shown an ability historically to be a consistent separator
Likely has as more of a 2nd phase separator when the play breaks down
the more i see of hopkins the more he just doesnt feel like a fit with what lamar likes as a passer - lamar doesn't like to throw the backshoulders or throw it contested on the sideline because of the low percentages - which makes, in hindsight, the hopkins signing an odd one because that fit takes away his greatest strength at this point in his career which is the catchpoint stuff (hands, body positioning and control)

Is the fit thing with Lamar and Hopkins a Lamar thing or an offense thing? I have to ask why we don't ask him to throw more back shoulder throws? Was that not what he was trying to do with Bateman who looked lost out there?

I just think this is a systemic issue on an insistence of being a run first team and throwing the ball a certain way.

 

[JO_75]

what play are you talking about because their go ahead TD was a running play...
and no one was near Maye on either the TD or the 2pt on the previous drive either

The Kyle Williams one where he suddenly became Randy Moss against our defense even though he's never been that good of a reciever before. Maybe that wasn't the go ahead but at least check for holding on the running play.

 

[rossihunter2]

Is the fit thing with Lamar and Hopkins a Lamar thing or an offense thing? I have to ask why we don't ask him to throw more back shoulder throws? Was that not what he was trying to do with Bateman who looked lost out there?

I just think this is a systemic issue on an insistence of being a run first team and throwing the ball a certain way.

throughout lamar's whole pro career that's always been the one play he doesnt really go to ever regardless of play call
because we know it's in the offence because tyler huntley loves to go to those kinds of throws

and this offence has been various things in different seasons - they're always going to be "run first" statistically with lamar because lamar adds something special to the running game - but a lot of the time since monken took over it's been with scrambling rather than designed QB runs

they've had a dynamic and awesome passing attack at various times in the past
just not this year - this combination of lamar's injuries, IOL issues, receiver injuries and inconsistencies has just melded into a mess of a passing game that's looked slow and unthreatening

 

[rossihunter2]

The Kyle Williams one where he suddenly became Randy Moss against our defense even though he's never been that good of a reciever before. Maybe that wasn't the go ahead but at least check for holding on the running play.

i rewatched those plays
there's no holding anywhere lol

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Lamar needs to be 100% healthy if this is the way they want to go. The pass protection has been abysmal but I also feel like they for the most part didn't have plays where you asked Lamar to throw the ball on time.

I just don't see it

It’s crazy to me how pass protection is a massive problem whether it’s Lamar or Huntley, yet as soon as Huntley comes in, bam, instant easy completions when asked to pass. Where are these plays when Lamar is in? Why is it seemingly impossible for our OC to design a pass play to just keep the offense on schedule when Lamar is in?

You can see the difference. With Huntley they can design an offense that doesn’t leave the qb exposed to mass pressure, with Lamar they design an offense where the qb has to bail out everyone consistently

 

[gtalk12]

 

[gtalk12]

It’s crazy to me how pass protection is a massive problem whether it’s Lamar or Huntley, yet as soon as Huntley comes in, bam, instant easy completions when asked to pass. Where are these plays when Lamar is in? Why is it seemingly impossible for our OC to design a pass play to just keep the offense on schedule when Lamar is in?

You can see the difference. With Huntley they can design an offense that doesn’t leave the qb exposed to mass pressure, with Lamar they design an offense where the qb has to bail out everyone consistently

bc they believe in every single play being a fire drill in the pocket so that Lamar can create something out of nothing on long developing routes


*chefs kiss

 

[Rusfan]

How the fuck was that fake punt not the end of the game?

 

[Simba]

How the fuck was that fake punt not the end of the game?

Devontez Walker got credited with a sack out of that shit too. A WR getting a sack should be an automatic W.

 

[Sandtown]

It’s crazy to me how pass protection is a massive problem whether it’s Lamar or Huntley, yet as soon as Huntley comes in, bam, instant easy completions when asked to pass. Where are these plays when Lamar is in? Why is it seemingly impossible for our OC to design a pass play to just keep the offense on schedule when Lamar is in?

You can see the difference. With Huntley they can design an offense that doesn’t leave the qb exposed to mass pressure, with Lamar they design an offense where the qb has to bail out everyone consistently

Sometimes if not a lot of times Lamar is unscheduled. He likes to go for the big play even when he hurt. Huntley is more disciplined within the play call as he's more willing to go for what the defense is giving him which is probably cause he understands his limitations as a passer .