The Running Game, the Turnovers, and the Same Ol’ Ravens

[29BmoreBird22]

What was it, 4th and 2 for the Bills when Allen threw up that deep pass that we got flagged on? As much as anything we did, this is yet another instance of the refs inserting themselves into the outcome of the game. That play, btw, should be in every team's playbook by this point. It gets called every time. All the WR needs to do is slow up going for the ball. If the DEF makes contact at all it's almost universally a PI. As soon as Allen let loose with that ball, I knew it was going to be a PI on us. That TD put them just out of reach even how things kind of went our way getting that last chance.

The only coaching question I can't quite resolve for myself is the extra points. We are marginal at 2 point conversions in the first place. In the Playoffs I feel like we are downright terrible. Not taking those two extra points where we went for conversions instead hurt us. It's why I'm always for taking the points, be it FG's instead of going for it on 4th and 2 or 3. Shorter ones, maybe, but I'll take points when I can get them and by the easiest route I can get them.

Sad, I thought it was our year. No way to predict the errors our guys made. They were just enough to do us in, despite what seemed like a game that we were in charge of.

It was 3rd and 5 with 1:13 to go.

It would have forced a field goal (making it 10-17), but also would have given the Ravens time to see if they could make something happen at all.

It was a major call in the Bills getting points (netted four), but also preventing one final Ravens drive.

Ravens obviously had opportunities to make up for it, but that was a very crucial and very blatantly wrong call.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Man its really rough having a Super Bowl winning capable team only to be undone by costly turnovers and dropped passes.

Not sure what was worse, Zay last year or Andrews this year.

Andrews this year 100000%.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The holding call was terrible too, agreed. But wasn't there a penalty on us on like the next play? I said to my daughter that it looked like they were trying to balance out a call they screwed up.

But that PI was the game changer imo. 3 or 7, as you say. Those 4 additional points getting the TD are what beat us, even with all of our errors. A FG there would have left us ahead with that final TD even before an extra point or conversion. And until that PI, we were pretty well holding them and even the FG wasn't guaranteed at that point. IDK, even the pass looked like the play was to play for the PI. It was a blooping rainbow that gave the WR plenty of time to get under it and stop to get run into. Classic Manning type play, where, "...if the WR can't catch it, we can hope for contact and get the yards anyway." play. lol

There was offsides against us the next play, but that was a legit call. Oweh was offsides by a country mile.
My point was that you could argue that the net balance of the two penalties cost us a total of one point. Which means we're kicking a PAT to tie the game at the end, which still means we have to stop Allen from a FG drive with 90 seconds and two timeouts.

And again, that presumes that literally everything stays the same after that and all plays stay the same, which, of course, it doesn't.

The DPI was bad. The holding call was bad. I think its hard to draw any real conclusions about what happens in the game if either one of those calls were different. Especially given that both were relatively early in the game.

 

[Carptom1]

I already see it happening on Twitter and RSR. I don’t think this game cemented Lamar as a “choker”. It’s bullshit actually, he overcame early slop and horrible game momentum the first half and led the team back, if Andrews didn’t fumble or drop that pass we win

You’re correct…As fans we always want to figure out a person or event to blame it on. Jackson is an electric player that does things that others can’t do. On occasion those players are going to make bad plays, unfortunately in the playoffs they are amplified due to the finality. I would agree that the first 2pt conversion was a bad play, even more I don’t like chasing points till the end. The second one wasn’t. The play was there and executed until it wasn’t. I would have more issues with Henry and his use. After half you guys ran it down their throat. After that series I really thought that the Bills were in trouble. Big pass plays are great, but drives like that are demoralizing for a defense. Then once again he disappears. I just don’t understand it and think at times coaches try to get too cute. Run it down their fucking throat. Who cares who the hero is.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

For the first 2PT, the play was there. I was not a fan at all of motioning Henry out because it took away the threat of a Henry run, but Andrews and Likely were open. Of course, I think the ball was going to Andrews and based on the rest of the game, he'd have dropped that, too.

Regarding the usage of Henry in the first half-

He was just bottled up. The offensive line was getting manhandled and Henry wasn't effective, at all. Henry had, I believe, eight carries for 20 yards. His ineffective running was putting the Ravens behind the chains early and slowly removed the run as a viable option.

Yes, he absolutely got better in the second half, as did the line, but I don't think just running Henry was the answer in the first half.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You’re correct…As fans we always want to figure out a person or event to blame it on. Jackson is an electric player that does things that others can’t do. On occasion those players are going to make bad plays, unfortunately in the playoffs they are amplified due to the finality. I would agree that the first 2pt conversion was a bad play, even more I don’t like chasing points till the end. The second one wasn’t. The play was there and executed until it wasn’t. I would have more issues with Henry and his use. After half you guys ran it down their throat. After that series I really thought that the Bills were in trouble. Big pass plays are great, but drives like that are demoralizing for a defense. Then once again he disappears. I just don’t understand it and think at times coaches try to get too cute. Run it down their fucking throat. Who cares who the hero is.

Yeah I think its impossible to sell that "not running Henry enough" was the downfall in this game. We weren't overly effective early in the run game, and in the second half it opened up. We were down 11 at halftime, and had four possessions in the second half. We scored two TDs and a FG, and Henry got plenty of usage. I see people bitching about the lack of Henry usage on the last drive, which is a 4 minute offense that WE SCORED A FUCKING TD ON. Complaining about lack of usage by certain players on a drive where we achieved exactly what we wanted to achieve AND got a man wide open for a game tying 2PC I think makes the entire fanbase look like we're intentionally stupid.

There is one super terrific offensive strategy that is practically guaranteed to get Derrick Henry the ball more, and it has absolutely nothing to do with play calling. Anybody want to guess what it is?

 

[UPennChem]

For the first 2PT, the play was there. I was not a fan at all of motioning Henry out because it took away the threat of a Henry run, but Andrews and Likely were open. Of course, I think the ball was going to Andrews and based on the rest of the game, he'd have dropped that, too.

Regarding the usage of Henry in the first half-

He was just bottled up. The offensive line was getting manhandled and Henry wasn't effective, at all. Henry had, I believe, eight carries for 20 yards. His ineffective running was putting the Ravens behind the chains early and slowly removed the run as a viable option.

Yes, he absolutely got better in the second half, as did the line, but I don't think just running Henry was the answer in the first half.

Agreed. But we did nearly nothing to help Henry either. They were full out sending guys to stop the run. So why didn't we call any PA on 1st down? Why didn't we use read option to have Lamar gash them if they crashed on Henry? It's like for some reason we understood exactly how this works against the Steelers, taking what they gave, but against Buffalo we were stubborn.

 

[rmcjacket23]

For the first 2PT, the play was there. I was not a fan at all of motioning Henry out because it took away the threat of a Henry run, but Andrews and Likely were open. Of course, I think the ball was going to Andrews and based on the rest of the game, he'd have dropped that, too.

Regarding the usage of Henry in the first half-

He was just bottled up. The offensive line was getting manhandled and Henry wasn't effective, at all. Henry had, I believe, eight carries for 20 yards. His ineffective running was putting the Ravens behind the chains early and slowly removed the run as a viable option.

Yes, he absolutely got better in the second half, as did the line, but I don't think just running Henry was the answer in the first half.

I'm not usually the "look at the box score and draw conclusions guy", but if any fan thinks that 25 passes and 30 runs is somehow "not heavy running enough", in a game like this, then there's literally no purpose for Lamar to be on this team. He should be traded immediately if anybody actually thinks that.

Only fanbase I could ever imagine having a franchise QB and saying, out loud, "we needed to run it more than 20+ times with our RBs in order to win". If you need that, your QB ain't "him" and never will be "him".

 

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed. But we did nearly nothing to help Henry either. They were full out sending guys to stop the run. So why didn't we call any PA on 1st down? Why didn't we use read option to have Lamar gash them if they crashed on Henry? It's like for some reason we understood exactly how this works against the Steelers, taking what they gave, but against Buffalo we were stubborn.

So we did run some play action, just not much out of the I. It was mostly in the pistol. And we threw it plenty on first down, which effectively achieves the same.
As for the read option, I'm honestly not sure this is the defense to do it against. I would have liked to have seen it more than basically like the zero times we did it, but this defense isn't the same as Pittsburgh. They weren't sending their DEs flying off the line of scrimmage towards individual guys. That's partially why they did such a better job against the run early. They weren't committing. They were just waiting and reacting, which is both a blessing and a curse.

 

[UPennChem]

So we did run some play action, just not much out of the I. It was mostly in the pistol. And we threw it plenty on first down, which effectively achieves the same.
As for the read option, I'm honestly not sure this is the defense to do it against. I would have liked to have seen it more than basically like the zero times we did it, but this defense isn't the same as Pittsburgh. They weren't sending their DEs flying off the line of scrimmage towards individual guys. That's partially why they did such a better job against the run early. They weren't committing. They were just waiting and reacting, which is both a blessing and a curse.

Agreed they were better than Pitt. But you're making my point. We didn't even try read option. And there was like no play action out of the I. Seems like basic stuff to keep a defense honest that we just didn't attempt.

 

[UKRaven1827]

Its always tough in a loss but a few players deserve their flowers. Tavius Robinson, Justice Hill, Rashod Bateman, Justin Tucker, Likely, Derrick Henry (when we decided to let him have the ball lol). Even Lamar, rough first half but he showed character when it really mattered. These guys stepped up. They were up for the fight.

As for some other guys, and I wont name names. When the lights were bright they no showed. How we got one of our star players on the podium saying "we weren't physical enough". In the playoffs ? With the chance to get revenge on KC in the next round, what is all that about.

Going to be a long and painful off season thinking back to another game the Ravens lost that they were more than capable of winning. Idk what needs to change, because these players are capable of it, but you cannot keep making the same mistakes.

"You are what you repeatedly do"

 

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed they were better than Pitt. But you're making my point. We didn't even try read option. And there was like no play action out of the I. Seems like basic stuff to keep a defense honest that we just didn't attempt.

And that's fine. I had really zero issues with the gameplan, because I think it proved to be effective. We were balanced, we kept BUF guessing as to what we were going to do. We were great on 3rd and 4th down. Had tons of yards. Efficient in the passing game, still pretty efficient in the running game. We were good in the red zone, pass protection I thought was good most of the game. Never punted.

We just turned the ball over three times. That's more drives for BUF, less drives for us. Regardless of whether those drives lead to points or not, it doesn't matter, because we're not scoring if we don't have the ball. That's what matters. Derrick Henry would have gotten the ball more if we had the ball more. Imagine what BUF 4th quarter defense looks like if they had to defend 60-65 plays instead of 50 plays going into the final drive.

I could argue Monken was a better play caller than Orr in this game, and I thought Orr was pretty good too. Especially in 2nd half.

 

[UPennChem]

And that's fine. I had really zero issues with the gameplan, because I think it proved to be effective. We were balanced, we kept BUF guessing as to what we were going to do. We were great on 3rd and 4th down. Had tons of yards. Efficient in the passing game, still pretty efficient in the running game. We were good in the red zone, pass protection I thought was good most of the game. Never punted.

We just turned the ball over three times. That's more drives for BUF, less drives for us. Regardless of whether those drives lead to points or not, it doesn't matter, because we're not scoring if we don't have the ball. That's what matters. Derrick Henry would have gotten the ball more if we had the ball more. Imagine what BUF 4th quarter defense looks like if they had to defend 60-65 plays instead of 50 plays going into the final drive.

I could argue Monken was a better play caller than Orr in this game, and I thought Orr was pretty good too. Especially in 2nd half.

Still agree. Think there were some little things that could be better from play calling perspective. Mostly though it was not using running plays on either 2PT conversion.

But ultimately and absolutely, the TOs are the whole story

 

[Michael M.]

The only 2 teams I see being routinely successful with 2point conversions are the Chiefs and the Bengals. Why this team insists on attempting them early in games I believe to be a coaching flaw. Last night could have gone into OT without that those stupid decisions. I think losing that way is more painful than getting trounced.

 

[Darklight1216]

It’s just heartbreaking how we lose every year. I have to stop getting my hopes up

This is the way. This game didn't hurt me nearly as much as the Chiefs because I lowered my expectations.

 

[RavensMania]

For the first 2PT, the play was there. I was not a fan at all of motioning Henry out because it took away the threat of a Henry run, but Andrews and Likely were open. Of course, I think the ball was going to Andrews and based on the rest of the game, he'd have dropped that, too.

Regarding the usage of Henry in the first half-

He was just bottled up. The offensive line was getting manhandled and Henry wasn't effective, at all. Henry had, I believe, eight carries for 20 yards. His ineffective running was putting the Ravens behind the chains early and slowly removed the run as a viable option.

Yes, he absolutely got better in the second half, as did the line, but I don't think just running Henry was the answer in the first half.

I think the 1st one was going to Likely and he was open, the ball was just tipped at the LoS.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Still agree. Think there were some little things that could be better from play calling perspective. Mostly though it was not using running plays on either 2PT conversion.

But ultimately and absolutely, the TOs are the whole story

I yawn at the 2PC plays. Both had open guys. I personally think if you have an MVP QB you should put the ball in his hands on those plays. Though I probably would have spent the whole offseason bathing in the tears of those who insist that Henry couldn't be stopped from the two yard line, despite being stopped for less yardage several times last night.

 

[RavensMania]

So we did run some play action, just not much out of the I. It was mostly in the pistol. And we threw it plenty on first down, which effectively achieves the same.
As for the read option, I'm honestly not sure this is the defense to do it against. I would have liked to have seen it more than basically like the zero times we did it, but this defense isn't the same as Pittsburgh. They weren't sending their DEs flying off the line of scrimmage towards individual guys. That's partially why they did such a better job against the run early. They weren't committing. They were just waiting and reacting, which is both a blessing and a curse.

actually the Bills defense didn't face much zone read at all this season.

 

[ravenslord]

could argue Monken was a better play caller than Orr in this game, and I thought Orr was pretty good too. Especially in 2nd half.

I’d generally agree except for the first 2 point call which was atrocious.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The only 2 teams I see being routinely successful with 2point conversions are the Chiefs and the Bengals. Why this team insists on attempting them early in games I believe to be a coaching flaw. Last night could have gone into OT without that those stupid decisions. I think losing that way is more painful than getting trounced.

Early in games? We didn't attempt one until late 3rd quarter. What the hell is the point in kicking a PAT, down 2, late in the 3rd quarter?