The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[Willbacker]

Thats interesting have not heard that. Though I meant literally get cameras and reporters int here faces constantly. Eventually they would succumb to the pressure.

Thing is a lot of cops get judged before they have their day in court like Darren Wilson in the Ferguson matter. Trust me the media and the left will not judge fairly.

 

[Willbacker]

American politics are about rhetoric and showmanship, not reality. Cause and effect doesn't matter here. Policy implications don't matter here. But goddammit that Trump is so star spangled awesome I don't even care /s

What does patriotism look like in NZ? Is it borderline jingoism like it is here?

I think its dingoism lol.

 

[rossihunter2]

What is so ironic about this is the players keep talking about unity, yet fans are booing the players during the anthem for kneeling. This tells me fans are getting more and more pissed about these protests and have had enough. So the players preach unity while dividing the NFL and the fan base.

of course they want to be unified with their fanbase but they also have a responsibility to themselves and their fellow athletes - they were all called out for exercising their freedom of speech so of course they would use that same platform to protest back against being victimised

and the moment these athletes are being villainized for using their platform to peacefully protest issues that affect them that aren't being solved or appreciated in the manner they'd like - i dont get this idea that not standing for the national anthem is disrespecting the military at all

 

[rossihunter2]

Thing is a lot of cops get judged before they have their day in court like Darren Wilson in the Ferguson matter. Trust me the media and the left will not judge fairly.

nor does the right wing media fairly represent any minority protest movement or the unfair killing of minorities by cops...
"moves and countermoves" - if you want to take against those who vilify police then you must also understand why it is that they vilify police and that it is a reaction to being vilified and ignored by other parts of the media/politics

 

[Willbacker]

nor does the right wing media fairly represent any minority protest movement or the unfair killing of minorities by cops...
"moves and countermoves" - if you want to take against those who vilify police then you must also understand why it is that they vilify police and that it is a reaction to being vilified and ignored by other parts of the media/politics

They're unfairly being judged before their trial. It has happened numerous times. Even Obama has been quoted as saying "the stupid actions by the police" when he didn't have all the facts

One thing you gotta understand there has been a lot of police killed by black people too and these are dangerous neighberhoods. If the NFL backs free speech why didn't they let the Cowboys wear decals for the police force after 5 were brutally murdered by a guy that was propaganded by BLM and the Black Panthers. Hypocrits if you ask me. Nobody talks about the cops being killed. Its only been a 1 way street

 

[Willbacker]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/03/the_decline_of_the_africanamerican_family.html

Is this kneeling all about the police or is it about the oppression of blacks? Cuz its awful shortsighted if racism is the only reason. No its the downfall of the black American family and the lack of guidance that caused all this poverty. Blacks were really on the rise in the 50's owning several businesses and gaining footholds in the American structure with strong family units until the war on poverty. If you want you can try to debunk this article but you cant.

Again and I'm gonna keep hammering this point but why do the Dems always get a pass when they created this culture and run these oppressed areas. They just keep blindly voted into office with their empty promises which I call lies. What they're trying to do is make everybody dependent on govt instead of letting free enterprise work. Remember its " Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness". Not the guarantee of happiness or the right to happiness.

BRING BACK THE STRONG FAMILY UNITS IN ALL CULTURES!!!

 

[gtalk12]

This question keeps getting avoided time and time again but why do you not blame the politicians that have run your city and your police force for the last half a century? Are you at all concerned about black on black crime? Are these oppressed areas high in crime where police have died answering the call? Is it good to depend on the govt for a living? This is a fact gtalk black families were the strongest family units in the 50's and early 60's but the war on poverty ended all that. Now its the worst.

You know what happens when a black man kills another black man? He goes to jail. You will kill whoever it is that you are next to, it is not secret that the percentage of blacks in poverty vs out of poverty is higher than that of whites. Overall, there are more whites in poverty but that is only because there are more white people than any other race in America. Whites are the majority, by a landslide.

As someone from these areas, I can tell you (just like you pointed out) the war on drugs destroyed the homes of many in the black community in the 50 and 60s just as the Civil Rights movement reached it's peak. It's almost as if they said "sure we will give you right but in return we will just start a war on drugs and just destroy all low income homes).

Poverty and drugs go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. When I see my brothers and sisters at 16 years old killing each other I know the lack of parenting and education is the biggest issue with these kids.

As for the police? If you and I had a face to face conversation, I'll show you a long list of police killings towards unarmed people (not black exclusive) and that is an issue for us. You are suppose to be protecting and serving, yet somehow they do not seem to be able to de-escalate situations. Sean Bell is a great example of this when he shot the kid in his back who was already on the ground.

Please note, this is not exclusive to black and brown people. A white woman was recently shot and killed with no real explanation as to why except the cop was in fear for his life.

Video has also surfaced of a cop planting evidence, something low income communities has voiced for years

 

[gtalk12]

I am beyond exhausted and pretty cranky, so I really shouldn't dive into this dialog again. But here I am. *sigh*

Speaking on behalf of myself at the very least, I want to make one thing so absolutely clear. As a person who is "bothered" by these "protests" I am not bothered by the reasoning behind the "protests" I am bothered by the means. Yes racism exists. Yes it is an atrocity. But in my mind to protest during the National Anthem about police brutality is akin to protesting drunk driving in front of the Marlboro factory.

In any given week there are four hours set aside for football and 168 hours for everything else. Within that four hour football window is +/- 2:00 minutes for the National Anthem.
Do you really mean to tell me that two minutes is the absolute optimum time to enact true effective change. I am not talking about making a statement.
Bumper stickers make statements. Do you know what that is? A statement, that and a buck fifty will buy you a cup of coffee.
I am more impressed with people who make a change, rather than those who make a statement.
Other than division, what change is taking place by kneeling during the National Anthem ?

When all this started, Kap said the point in doing what he was doing was to bring awareness to start a dialogue so we can do what must be done. So far it seems like the conversation is starting to be had. This is why this is important, we must address the issues that are plaguing us here in America, the REAL issues, not the wall we need to build so that we can go back to enjoying the men who put on helmets who come from these areas.

We love them when they play well for us, it's time we love them for them now as well.

 

[gtalk12]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/03/the_decline_of_the_africanamerican_family.html

Is this kneeling all about the police or is it about the oppression of blacks? Cuz its awful shortsighted if racism is the only reason. No its the downfall of the black American family and the lack of guidance that caused all this poverty. Blacks were really on the rise in the 50's owning several businesses and gaining footholds in the American structure with strong family units until the war on poverty. If you want you can try to debunk this article but you cant.

Again and I'm gonna keep hammering this point but why do the Dems always get a pass when they created this culture and run these oppressed areas. They just keep blindly voted into office with their empty promises which I call lies. What they're trying to do is make everybody dependent on govt instead of letting free enterprise work. Remember its " Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness". Not the guarantee of happiness or the right to happiness.

BRING BACK THE STRONG FAMILY UNITS IN ALL CULTURES!!![/QUOTE]



EXACTLY.

Now this is the dialogue I had hoped would be had after everything that has happened

 

[Tank]

I posted a link about how the flag is disrespected before every single game and kneeling is not amongst the list.

Kneeling....... exactly the crux of a conversation I had today with a black veteran/friend/coworker. We both agreed if Kap had not sat at first or publicly wore the pig socks(dumb ass) the word "disrespect" would not have entered the conversation and this whole deal would not be what it is.

 

[rossihunter2]

Kneeling....... exactly the crux of a conversation I had today with a black veteran/friend/coworker. We both agreed if Kap had not sat at first or publicly wore the pig socks(dumb ass) the word "disrespect" would not have entered the conversation and this whole deal would not be what it is.

Kap had been doing it for ages and he's not even the first to do it though - the pig socks were stupid but shouldn't overwrite what he stood for - if the media had not made such a big deal about it because it was kap in a preseason game then literally no one would have cared - literally everyone who hates what he did and what he protests has actually facilitated his/their protest - look at how it's proliferated into a central issue that people are talking about...

so i agree that it didn't need to be the issue that it's become but I guarantee you that the pig socks had very little to do with it beyond becoming a scapegoat for hating kap and his stance

 

[Tank]

Kap had been doing it for ages and he's not even the first to do it though - the pig socks were stupid but shouldn't overwrite what he stood for - if the media had not made such a big deal about it because it was kap in a preseason game then literally no one would have cared - literally everyone who hates what he did and what he protests has actually facilitated his/their protest - look at how it's proliferated into a central issue that people are talking about...

so i agree that it didn't need to be the issue that it's become but I guarantee you that the pig socks had very little to do with it beyond becoming a scapegoat for hating kap and his stance

Agree on the media but wholeheartedly disagree on the socks. There is only a certain type of person that would wear pig socks(media coverage or not) and there's no question that many tuned him out and have no respect for him because of it.

No one I know disagrees with what is supposed to be his "stance" and frankly it's pretty ridiculous to think that there is anyone but a deranged few that would condone police violence or oppose a rally to stop it. But sadly Kap's stupidity and the media's exploitation has made it into a completely different animal.

 

[Willbacker]

You know what happens when a black man kills another black man? He goes to jail. You will kill whoever it is that you are next to, it is not secret that the percentage of blacks in poverty vs out of poverty is higher than that of whites. Overall, there are more whites in poverty but that is only because there are more white people than any other race in America. Whites are the majority, by a landslide.

As someone from these areas, I can tell you (just like you pointed out) the war on drugs destroyed the homes of many in the black community in the 50 and 60s just as the Civil Rights movement reached it's peak. It's almost as if they said "sure we will give you right but in return we will just start a war on drugs and just destroy all low income homes).

Poverty and drugs go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. When I see my brothers and sisters at 16 years old killing each other I know the lack of parenting and education is the biggest issue with these kids.

As for the police? If you and I had a face to face conversation, I'll show you a long list of police killings towards unarmed people (not black exclusive) and that is an issue for us. You are suppose to be protecting and serving, yet somehow they do not seem to be able to de-escalate situations. Sean Bell is a great example of this when he shot the kid in his back who was already on the ground.

Please note, this is not exclusive to black and brown people. A white woman was recently shot and killed with no real explanation as to why except the cop was in fear for his life.

Video has also surfaced of a cop planting evidence, something low income communities has voiced for years

Thanks for getting back man really appreciate it. You mentioned the long lists of killings by police and their inability to deescalate situations I have to repectively disagree. If you took all the situations police deal with it would be a fraction of a fraction of things not being done right. Sure situations have been botched or it could just be plain evil like a cop planting drugs in a car or just being a racist. Also to be fair a lot of people are sent back into the street after multiple gun violations, theft,distribution of drugs, whatever after getting a slap on the wrist from the judge even tho they had a long laundry list of violations and there have been cops jailed before too. The main thing is the prosecution according to the laws have to prove that somebody is guilty which is not always the easiest thing to do. Thing is nothing should be protested (the riots in the streets proved otherwise) until all the facts come out and not prejudge.

Hopefully you read that article and I meant the war on poverty not drugs lol but close enough since they do like you said pretty much go hand in hand. I'm also hoping you see that a lot of the poverty was caused by rules and regulations from the democratic party. They've been controlling the cities. Just a fact. Look at history the Republicans have always fought for black peoples rights. Get "The History of the Democrats" movie. Its a right wing movie, yes, but the facts cant be debunked that's in it.

For a sec if I can get back to the flag. The National Anthem was written during the War of 1812 and is written about the freedom of this country and the men who fought for it so if anybody wants to know this is why it is considered disrespectful to our military. Pretty funny how the left likes burning the flag and waving Mexican or communists flags instead.

 

[gtalk12]

Thanks for getting back man really appreciate it. You mentioned the long lists of killings by police and their inability to deescalate situations I have to repectively disagree. If you took all the situations police deal with it would be a fraction of a fraction of things not being done right. Sure situations have been botched or it could just be plain evil like a cop planting drugs in a car or just being a racist. Also to be fair a lot of people are sent back into the street after multiple gun violations, theft,distribution of drugs, whatever after getting a slap on the wrist from the judge even tho they had a long laundry list of violations and there have been cops jailed before too. The main thing is the prosecution according to the laws have to prove that somebody is guilty which is not always the easiest thing to do. Thing is nothing should be protested (the riots in the streets proved otherwise) until all the facts come out and not prejudge.

Hopefully you read that article and I meant the war on poverty not drugs lol but close enough since they do like you said pretty much go hand in hand. I'm also hoping you see that a lot of the poverty was caused by rules and regulations from the democratic party. They've been controlling the cities. Just a fact. Look at history the Republicans have always fought for black peoples rights. Get "The History of the Democrats" movie. Its a right wing movie, yes, but the facts cant be debunked that's in it.

For a sec if I can get back to the flag. The National Anthem was written during the War of 1812 and is written about the freedom of this country and the men who fought for it so if anybody wants to know this is why it is considered disrespectful to our military. Pretty funny how the left likes burning the flag and waving Mexican or communists flags instead.

Sir I have a feeling you and I could enjoy a cold one and battle it out with healthy debate. I do not disclose my stance on either the Republican or Democratic parties much...however, history has shown me that the harshest parties towards the lower class has been the Democratic one....

I am no fool to think that either party has the real best interest in the lower class and the proof is in the harsh policies the Clintons pushed for example.

Remember, players aren't actually doing anything to the flag. They are simple kneeling during the anthem, if they did ANYTHING to the flag directly I would have a HUGE issue with that regardless of whether or not I agreed with the cause.

 

[Willbacker]

Sir I have a feeling you and I could enjoy a cold one and battle it out with healthy debate. I do not disclose my stance on either the Republican or Democratic parties much...however, history has shown me that the harshest parties towards the lower class has been the Democratic one....

I am no fool to think that either party has the real best interest in the lower class and the proof is in the harsh policies the Clintons pushed for example.

Remember, players aren't actually doing anything to the flag. They are simple kneeling during the anthem, if they did ANYTHING to the flag directly I would have a HUGE issue with that regardless of whether or not I agreed with the cause.

Always interested in a cold one. In fact I'm drinking one right now. Yeah just keep an open mind and look at the big picture.

 

[JO_75]

So Steelers OT Alejandro Villanueva was the only one to stand in the open while the rest of the Steelers stayed in the tunnel during the Anthem. He is now being rewarded by the fans and has become the top seller in jerseys and t-shirts among ALL NFL players.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincen...-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/#78cf9962235f

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Get "The History of the Democrats" movie. Its a right wing movie, yes, but the facts cant be debunked that's in it.

Please, anyone, for the love of all that is good, do not watch this movie.

I'm sure it really mentions that the Democratic party used to be the party of the south during the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. I'm sure it mentions that the last political shift was during FDR's campaigning as he campaigned as a Dem-Socialist for the lower class. I'm sure it mentions that Nixon was the president that targeted southern, rural farmers and the likes and helped shape the target demographics that we see today in our campaigns.

Please, do not watch this movie.

 

[Pats]

That takes balls by alejandro, and now I feel sick respecting a steelers player. I hate this planet im moving to mars, they dont have twitter there just craters.

 

[Dom McRaven]

Kaep does a lot with the community in the form of volunteer work and hosting camps and what not. He's actually pretty involved with under-privileged youths. We just don't hear about it because why would we? It's not football and that's anyone cares about when it comes to these players.

As for the cops, I believe 90% are good people with good intentions. I have yet to deal with a bad cop and have actually been treated in a really friendly way every time. I think much of that ties to being in a VERY white area with almost no crime so that the cops don't feel threatened at all, but I've been lucky.

If I recall correctly, I believe Kaepernick has a website that tracks all of his donations to various charities.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Thanks for getting back man really appreciate it. You mentioned the long lists of killings by police and their inability to deescalate situations I have to repectively disagree. If you took all the situations police deal with it would be a fraction of a fraction of things not being done right.

There are so many cases where it isn't like, "Oh, they just did one minute thing wrong and it wasn't really a huge deal."

Think of Eric Greer where police are on his throat and he keeps yelling that he cannot breathe. You're telling me that in the five or six times that he yells that they didn't have ample time to react? Think of Tamir Rice. The police officer literally took 6 seconds to get out of the car and fire bullets into the child. He didn't think or assess the situation; he simply acted. Had he actually gotten out of the car to assess the situation, he'd see the gun had an orange tip.

I can't remember the name of the cop. Steven... something. Anyway, cop out in WV who gets called because a girl's brother is suicidal and has a gun. Girl is worried he'll kill himself. Steven goes to the site and sees the brother kinda twitching the gun by his side. He assessed the situation to be suicide by cop and tries to talk to the brother. He's confident the brother won't shoot and wants Steven to shoot. Backup arrives and when the brother turns around, backup opens up on the brother and kills him. Turns out the gun was empty; Steven was right. Steven gets fired for endangering other police officers lives by not shooting this man. I think all of that also points to a systematic failure in our police training.

I think it was like Milwaukee or somewhere like that up in Wisconsin did a complete overhaul and retrained every single one of their police officers like 5 years ago and they have not had a single killing by police since. Police can be trained to make split second decisions without shooting first.

There are so many instances of cops doing the wrong thing where it isn't just a split second decision. There are simply cops who do not belong on the streets in a uniform.