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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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cobrajet said:
Hey everyone, I rarely post in the political thread because I have seen first hand people who were good friends on Facebook that don't have anything to do with each other because of some political posts. I value everyone's friendship and respect everyone's opinion so I don't really want to chance anything with a post. With that said, this has been a very upsetting day for me. During the first part of this game, my mom calls me up crying. She said my dad got up this morning and had all his Ravens gear on, however he saw a bunch of Ravens players kneeling for the Anthem and he got up and went upstairs and was up there for a while and then came downstairs with a box containing all his Ravens gear and told my mom to take it to the Goodwill. He turned off the TV and went outside to do yard work. My mom knows me and my dad talk Ravens football over the game. I had to hear my mom crying and asking if I was also going to get rid of the jersey she special ordered for me as a Christmas present and being upset that I won't be able to call and talk to them on Sundays about Ravens football. I am sure that my dad probably took down the Ravens flag he always has up on game day. My mom knows as I do, when my dad says he is done, he means it. There is no cooling off period with my dad, he means it when he says he is done. I was so upset, I turned off the game and went outside and washed my vehi
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no worries like all real raven fans u'll both be back and it was a good game to skip!
 
gtalk12 said:
So you know your history, and yet we as a collective should accept things for what they are because it just is what it is. Sir, just sit in the back and let the rest of us who do want a change for the better, for EVERYONE work. Sorry that these issues seem to annoy you, but when we have a country that is currently ranked 26th in the world in education and we lead the world in mass incarceration I do not accept the "it is what it is" narrative.

The whole if you do not like it leave narrative is also disgusting (not implying you said that). If you are in a marriage and issues pop up in the home do you just leave? Or do you hear each other out and work through whatever issue that may be and make your home better than it was before?

Their are police officers who have gotten away with murder, I will not and can not support any entity that does not correctly address the few. These are men and women sworn in to protect us, ALL OF US, from harm and yet seem to be the very ones committing crimes and over stepping their boundaries.
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I love when people put words in your mouth or think people know someone just from reading a post. I never said I didn’t want this county to not be better, or that I didn’t think there were issues that needed to be corrected. I also never said we should just accept things the way they are. I was simply speaking from histories standpoint. While I think things can be fixed, how can we be optimistic when these same issues that have been going on for centuries have not be fixed, when people have been doing the same things and speaking out the same way for centuries, yet the same issues you speak of remain? Don’t tell me to just sit back when I live in the same country you do, will raise future kids in the same country you do. Do you seriously think I like how this country is headed, do you seriously think I want to raise kids in a country that is the way it is right now? Now ask yourself, do you think i want to just “sit back” and raise a family in this crap? There’s your answer. Just because I feel that politics should be left out of the NFL, doesn’t mean I feel that everything is Hunky Dory, and sun shine and rainbows and that I don’t think there are issues that need to be fixed. There are plenty of ways that things can be brought to attention and brought to the forefront.
 
Knee jerk reactions aside its so easy to fall into these kind of traps without some perspective.

Now thus is a little off topic but after my last rant I took myself out of the discussion again and noticed some parrallels between Trump and Obama, theyre both populists. The irony is that Obama held far more conservative viewpoints than Trump who is a former democrat who historically held progressive views. Obama was anti immigration and flip flopped on gay marriage multiple times. Both were forced to align with the people who voted for them.
 
CharmCityChampions said:
I love when people put words in your mouth or think people know someone just from reading a post. I never said I didn’t want this county to not be better, or that I didn’t think there were issues that needed to be corrected. I also never said we should just accept things the way they are. I was simply speaking from histories standpoint. While I think things can be fixed, how can we be optimistic when these same issues that have been going on for centuries have not be fixed, when people have been doing the same things and speaking out the same way for centuries, yet the same issues you speak of remain? Don’t tell me to just sit back when I live in the same country you do, will raise future kids in the same country you do. Do you seriously think I like how this country is headed, do you seriously think I want to raise kids in a country that is the way it is right now? Now ask yourself, do you think i want to just “sit back” and raise a family in this crap? There’s your answer. Just because I feel that politics should be left out of the NFL, doesn’t mean I feel that everything is Hunky Dory, and sun shine and rainbows and that I don’t think there are issues that need to be fixed. There are plenty of ways that things can be brought to attention and brought to the forefront.
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So...WITH ALL OF THAT said....you then agree there are issues in this country that need to be addressed. This is why they kneel.
 
RayRayRaven said:
no worries like all real raven fans u'll both be back and it was a good game to skip!
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I hope so, but my dad has a will of steel. I don't want to hate on players for kneeling but honestly I watch sports to escape all that political stuff, but I have no control over any of this. All I am saying is when my mom calls me crying, I can't enjoy it anymore so I might as well be productive and get my home projects done, especially when the weather is so good outside. It's all good, I got a lot done and feel a little bit better now because of it.
 
CharmCityChampions said:
That’s how I treat games, as a escape to enjoy something from everyday life. That’s one of the reasons why I stated what I stated above.
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I get where you are coming from, really I do. For some of these players this escape you get isn't the same when they are heckled by fans with racial slurs or if they feel unfairly targeted.
 
cobrajet said:
Hey everyone, I rarely post in the political thread because I have seen first hand people who were good friends on Facebook that don't have anything to do with each other because of some political posts. I value everyone's friendship and respect everyone's opinion so I don't really want to chance anything with a post. With that said, this has been a very upsetting day for me. During the first part of this game, my mom calls me up crying. She said my dad got up this morning and had all his Ravens gear on, however he saw a bunch of Ravens players kneeling for the Anthem and he got up and went upstairs and was up there for a while and then came downstairs with a box containing all his Ravens gear and told my mom to take it to the Goodwill. He turned off the TV and went outside to do yard work. My mom knows me and my dad talk Ravens football over the game. I had to hear my mom crying and asking if I was also going to get rid of the jersey she special ordered for me as a Christmas present and being upset that I won't be able to call and talk to them on Sundays about Ravens football. I am sure that my dad probably took down the Ravens flag he always has up on game day. My mom knows as I do, when my dad says he is done, he means it. There is no cooling off period with my dad, he means it when he says he is done. I was so upset, I turned off the game and went outside and washed my vehicle. When my wife, came out to see what was wrong I couldn't even tell her. I have a lot of thinking to do. I never thought I would be dealing with today. I can't stand to hear my mom cry.
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right so i dont want to seem mean or cruel so please dont take this the wrong way - but i dont understand why them kneeling for a national anthem is upsetting at all... in what way are they dishonouring anyone or disrespecting anyone - all they are doing is protesting an issue that is close to them and them kneeling hurts no one - why should they be expected not to protest when their own livelihood and character has been brought into question without reason by the person who is supposed to represent them and all other americans on the global stage

if someone comes at them they are well within their rights to retaliate especially in such a non-intrusive way

im sorry that it upset your parents and i hope that this isnt the end for you and the ravens but in the nicest way possible i just dont understand that attitude
 
rossihunter2 said:
the game being an escape is only valid if it can be an escape for everyone and it's just not
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and this is what makes it sad, players have spoken out about it plenty of times but nobody really cares about them. When I was younger I spoke about the issues that plagued us (I'm from Jersey) and nobody really seemed to care unless it was fellow people that came from the areas I came from which usually were fellow blacks.
 
rossihunter2 said:
right so i dont want to seem mean or cruel so please dont take this the wrong way - but i dont understand why them kneeling for a national anthem is upsetting at all... in what way are they dishonouring anyone or disrespecting anyone - all they are doing is protesting an issue that is close to them and them kneeling hurts no one - why should they be expected not to protest when their own livelihood and character has been brought into question without reason by the person who is supposed to represent them and all other americans on the global stage

if someone comes at them they are well within their rights to retaliate especially in such a non-intrusive way

im sorry that it upset your parents and i hope that this isnt the end for you and the ravens but in the nicest way possible i just dont understand that attitude
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No I am just confused. I originally thought this was a Kaepernick thing and was kind of anti-police, but I don't understand that whole thing either. Maybe it is now a Trump thing? I am just very confused. Did you read my posts? I am upset because my mom called me crying because my dad packed all his Ravens gear in a box and told her to take it to the Goodwill. I am not upset with the team or the players kneeling, I am still trying to understand that, but it was all about being upset that my mom was crying. I went outside because I couldn't enjoy the game after that, because I was upset that she was upset, it had nothing to do me hating on our team. If this is a police issue thing, I don't have a problem with people upset with the bad apples out there. I am upset myself that they give us a black eye. My whole thing is that there are a lot of good police out here, and we far outnumber the bad ones. More police were shot and killed by bad people than police shot people in Baltimore City. Many of them are killed in ambushes and never had a chance. It is hard to make it to retirement with receiving a major injury on the job in this dangerous city. I stand against racism completely, but I do get my feelings hurt when guys like Kaepernick wear socks with pigs in police hats and when people go around screaming, "what do we want.....dead police, when do we want it.....now" I have saved many lives in my career, a kid choking who was blue when I got there and parents look at you to please help them and me praying to God I can bring him back, thank God that prayer was answered! A elderly woman not breathing and a granddaughter begging you to bring her grandmother back, another prayer answered. Yeah I did not think twice about putting my mouth on a complete stranger, because how do you not when a child is looking at you with panic in her eyes? Several people who attempted suicide I brought back. All these people had a different skin color than me, but who cares about that. I have love in my heart for everyone. I just bring this stuff up, because I think it is a slap in the face to me to protest law enforcement, without recognizing any good we do. If taking a knee is a law enforcement protest thing, how do you differentiate that you still support the majority of officers that have not done anything wrong? I have heard a lot of people in these kind of protests say, well if you are not of a certain race than you can't really understand. I get that, but also say, if you are not a police officer than you don't understand how this makes us feel. Again, in Baltimore City, the police officers are the ones per capita getting shot at an alarming rate. I admit that I am still trying to learn about these protests, and it seems things are getting really complicated. For now, I think it is best to put any judgements on hold.
 
This is my final say on this matter. Didn't the whole kneeling during the Anthem start because of the police who use excessive force or abuse their power? That's what this whole thing is about right, now it's a good cause because the bad cops who do abuse their power, hide behind their badge and uniform as an excuse for excessive force need to be dealt with. My question is, what exactly does kneeling during the anthem do to take steps toward a solution to ending this once and for all? The players are all knee, no action because it's like your kneeling but that isn't showing me that you want to help find a solution.

If these players want to help end this and find a solution, instead of kneeling during the Anthem go talk to the Police Commissioner, Chief, etc in their respective cities and states and ask them why they don't punish the bad cops, or as Trump said "Fire Their Asses". When you hear about police using excessive force or abusing their power, the very next thing is them being put on paid leave during the investigation. Then we never hear anything about it again and the officer is allowed to return like nothing happened. The players and now Owners need to get involved and find out why the Police Chief, Commissioner, etc does not discipline their officers and work together to take the steps, not a knee but the STEPS necessary to find a solution and put an end to it once and for all.

That's where the NFL players and owners can make a difference. Going and talking to the Head Honchos in charge that hide their cops via "paid suspension" until it dies down and asking them to actually do something about the bad cops instead of letting them keep their badges. No more paid suspensions, leaves, whatever they want to call it as their way of trying to save face in a PR battle with the public. That's where the player's angers should be directed toward. Now Trump did go too far in the name calling and calling all players who kneel SOBs, so their anger toward him is justified. Taking it out on the Anthem by kneeling does not direct the anger where it should be, which is toward the head honchos who allow officers to abuse their power and do nothing about it.
 
I am beyond exhausted and pretty cranky, so I really shouldn't dive into this dialog again. But here I am. *sigh*

Speaking on behalf of myself at the very least, I want to make one thing so absolutely clear. As a person who is "bothered" by these "protests" I am not bothered by the reasoning behind the "protests" I am bothered by the means. Yes racism exists. Yes it is an atrocity. But in my mind to protest during the National Anthem about police brutality is akin to protesting drunk driving in front of the Marlboro factory.

In any given week there are four hours set aside for football and 168 hours for everything else. Within that four hour football window is +/- 2:00 minutes for the National Anthem.
Do you really mean to tell me that two minutes is the absolute optimum time to enact true effective change. I am not talking about making a statement.
Bumper stickers make statements. Do you know what that is? A statement, that and a buck fifty will buy you a cup of coffee.
I am more impressed with people who make a change, rather than those who make a statement.
Other than division, what change is taking place by kneeling during the National Anthem ?
 
cobrajet said:
Hey everyone, I rarely post in the political thread because I have seen first hand people who were good friends on Facebook that don't have anything to do with each other because of some political posts. I value everyone's friendship and respect everyone's opinion so I don't really want to chance anything with a post. With that said, this has been a very upsetting day for me. During the first part of this game, my mom calls me up crying. She said my dad got up this morning and had all his Ravens gear on, however he saw a bunch of Ravens players kneeling for the Anthem and he got up and went upstairs and was up there for a while and then came downstairs with a box containing all his Ravens gear and told my mom to take it to the Goodwill. He turned off the TV and went outside to do yard work. My mom knows me and my dad talk Ravens football over the game. I had to hear my mom crying and asking if I was also going to get rid of the jersey she special ordered for me as a Christmas present and being upset that I won't be able to call and talk to them on Sundays about Ravens football. I am sure that my dad probably took down the Ravens flag he always has up on game day. My mom knows as I do, when my dad says he is done, he means it. There is no cooling off period with my dad, he means it when he says he is done. I was so upset, I turned off the game and went outside and washed my vehicle. When my wife, came out to see what was wrong I couldn't even tell her. I have a lot of thinking to do. I never thought I would be dealing with today. I can't stand to hear my mom cry.
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Wow, that must have been gut-wrenching.
 
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