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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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rossihunter2 said:
that's completely fair enough and im not going to pretend that i dont get emotional about many political things and ad hominem attacks

and my mind is open with regards to the hillary allegations - my problem with this is that in my eyes i see a double standard among many conservative voters and politicians which i like to refer to as "what about"ing - i.e. whenever trump's investigation is brought up his supporters and politicians around him as well as fox news all ignore the investigation and respond with "well what about those clinton allegations" - essentially ignoring the legitimacy of any claims or news that reflects negatively on trump... that's not to say there isnt something shady about clinton but it's also not false to say that the fbi did not charge her... twice even after political pressure forced them to reexamine the case just before the election

that's not to say she's innocent and that trump is guilty but i hate the fact that the narrative is always the same from the majority of the right wing media and politicians etc... i.e. that trump's allegations dont count for anything because hillary's investigation didnt find her guilty yet...
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I agree with you. Another gut feeling I have is that I think when it is all said and done, we are not going to have a definitive answer on the Russian collusion regarding Trump or the allegations Trump is making against the FBI alleging illegal surveillance of him during the election. People are going to end up remaining just as divided as they have ever been. To be fair, it was getting pretty bad before Trump was elected and it is still getting bad. People are so angry. Things run a lot deeper than President Trump. It is depressing but I don’t see it getting better anytime soon. Hopefully I am wrong. Maybe something can finally be agreed upon with immigration and infrastructure, the economy continues to improve, more jobs are created and employment goes down, and people start getting happier if these positives come about or continue.
 
cobrajet said:
I agree with you. Another gut feeling I have is that I think when it is all said and done, we are not going to have a definitive answer on the Russian collusion regarding Trump or the allegations Trump is making against the FBI alleging illegal surveillance of him during the election. People are going to end up remaining just as divided as they have ever been. To be fair, it was getting pretty bad before Trump was elected and it is still getting bad. People are so angry. Things run a lot deeper than President Trump. It is depressing but I don’t see it getting better anytime soon. Hopefully I am wrong. Maybe something can finally be agreed upon with immigration and infrastructure, the economy continues to improve, more jobs are created and employment goes down, and people start getting happier if these positives come about or continue.
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Since you seem to have missed it, here again is my post with a couple questions. How would you reconcile these logical inconsistencies?

The Raven said:
First, thanks for your service.

Second, if Trump was "railroaded," why did Comey re-open the Hillary investigation days before the election, all but ensuring her loss? I'll wait as long as it takes for you or someone to rationalize that.

Third, Comey and eight GOP-led Congressional investigations have yet to convict her of anything. The GOP hasn't been able to prove any kind of criminal wrongdoing. If they could, they would have. Yet, here we are. Any take on that? You seem convinced she's a criminal. What proof do you have that eight GOP-led Congressional investigations didn't?
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The Raven said:
I'll give him more time before passing final judgment. I even said "yet" in my last post if you read it. It's just irritating that half of the voters in this country blamed Obama for what they felt was a struggling economy, yet they praise Trump for apparently fixing it -- even though he's done nothing but reap the benefits of following Obama. Hell, Trump himself thinks he's doing better than Obama when there isn't a single measure where he's objectively doing better.

What wasn't solid about the hand he was dealt? Every single economic indicator had been improving at the time he took office. It's not as though he took office during the middle of a recession. To say he wasn't dealt a solid hand is to not look at the statistics.
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You seem to think Obama was king. Nah there's no legislative branch or judicial branch in govt. Only Obama. You really have a bad habit of only looking at the prez ie civil right law for one example.
 
The Raven said:
"My name is Cobrajet and I know more than the FBI. I'm going to go tell them how to do their job."

Dude, eight GOP-led congressional investigations couldn't even dig dirt on Hill. Maybe there ain't shit and your partisan biases won't let you accept that.

So there's no way you'd sit back and get "railroaded" by the FBI? What would you do to the FBI, which operates independently of the president? What would you do about this without breaking the law yourself?
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That's the problem is the independence. If the FBI was used as a political tool...... all those fisa warrants from a foreign based company dossier allowing extremely high amounts of unmasking and totally scrapping our 4th amendment.
 
The Raven said:
I think it's hysterical that some GOP morons think the FBI and Comey were in the bag for Clinton -- despite Comey reopening the investigation into Hillary just days before the election, and with nothing to show for it. If the FBI was in the bag for Hill, Comey wouldn't have done that -- it killed her chances. I'm forever amazed by the idiocy of the far right.
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Anthony Weiner.
 
The Raven said:
So, anyone else notice that Trump spent no time at all on education and workforce development and then proceeded to ramble on immigration? I mean, who needs to be smart if we can just blame brown people for a bad economy?
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How come Obama didn't do anything?
 
The Raven said:
Oh, and where were the details on infrastructure? How will Trump lower prescription drug prices?

This president is too dumb and racist to deal with sometimes.
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Our president graduated from the Harvard Wharton school of business. Don't you guys know the racist card is really becoming outdated but you know since that's all you got..... As for explicit details really during the SOTU speech.
 
rossihunter2 said:
Interesting note: not one mention of Russia in Trump's speech - i assumed he would ignore the allegations of collusion but he didnt mention the sanctions or anything else either - even in defence he didnt mention it...
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Becuz its fake news.
 
Sorry for so many posts guys but the Dems embarrassed themselves totally from the black caucus not standing to at least acknowledge the historical lows of black unemployment to them not standing for a 12 yr old kid that raised the awareness of the lack of flags for our veterans graves to the dribble on Joe Kennedys lip. Grrrrrr!! Democrats are a bunch of drama queens. No wonder Hollywood likes them so much.
 
Willbacker said:
Sorry for so many posts guys but the Dems embarrassed themselves totally from the black caucus not standing to at least acknowledge the historical lows of black unemployment
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ill copy this from my earlier fact-checking post that you evidently didnt read...

  • Trump said: "African-American unemployment stands at the lowest rate ever recorded, and Hispanic American unemployment has also reached the lowest levels in history."
  • It is true that the unemployment rate for African Americans reached a record low in December 2017, dropping to 6.8% (the previous lows were 7% in April 2000 and September 2017). The unemployment rate for Hispanic Americans is not a record, but close to it, at 4.9% last month; the record is 4.8% in October 2017. Before he was elected and began to cite them, Trump repeatedly derided these unemployment numbers, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, calling them “fake” and “nonsense”.
  • Whether the president can take credit for these unemployment rates is more complicated, and tied up in the knotty, ambiguous question of how much any president can directly affect the economy, or only indirectly affect it through regulations, stimulus packages, and other measures.
  • Unemployment across all demographics declined from 2010 to 2016, during six years of Barack Obama’s presidency. African American unemployment more than halved, from a 16.6% peak in April 2010 to 7.8% in January 2017; Hispanic American unemployment reached similarly fell from 13% in August 2009 to 5.9% in January 2017. Neither president can take sole credit for producing those jobs.

so while it is factually accurate to say that unemployment for black americans is at an all-time low, a look at the catalyst for that reduction and the fact that the rate of improvement has not increased since obama left it's hard to see why 'the black caucus' should feel the need to stand and applaud Trump for not completely ruining an existing successful policy...

an important note is that Trump refused to accept the statistics on employment before he was elected and now he relies on those same statistics...
 
Willbacker said:
to them not standing for a 12 yr old kid that raised the awareness of the lack of flags for our veterans graves to the dribble on Joe Kennedys lip. Grrrrrr!! Democrats are a bunch of drama queens. No wonder Hollywood likes them so much.
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it was a manipulative attempt by Trump to refer to the NFL protest and try and pivot the issue...
at no point was the protest by nfl players ever about veterans so to bring up the issue in that manner was a ludicrous attempt at narrative manipulation... it was entirely about police shootings and policing of minority communities in general... if i were to hazard a guess then id suggest that's why the democrats didnt stand - because they didnt endorse the cheap manipulation they were seeing in front of them...
 
Willbacker said:
You seem to think Obama was king. Nah there's no legislative branch or judicial branch in govt. Only Obama. You really have a bad habit of only looking at the prez ie civil right law for one example.
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Maybe you missed this in history class but if you look back at U.S. history it's the president who sets the legislative agenda. That's how it's always been. The president doesn't have legislative power but the president has always had influence over legislation and since the late 1800s, the president has essentially directed the agenda. Did you not know that?

Willbacker said:
Anthony Weiner.
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Incomplete thought. Please use complete sentences.

Willbacker said:
How come Obama didn't do anything?
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GOP Congress? Maybe? You needed me to tell you that?

Willbacker said:
Our president graduated from the Harvard Wharton school of business. Don't you guys know the racist card is really becoming outdated but you know since that's all you got..... As for explicit details really during the SOTU speech.
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Well, his mental facilities seem to have deteriorated since then.
 
The Raven said:
Since you seem to have missed it, here again is my post with a couple questions. How would you reconcile these logical inconsistencies?
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Sorry I am at work but I will give you my gut feeling, as I can not state anything as fact to your question. First, there was rumors (I can’t prove) that the rank and file special agents were at their breaking point in disgust at how Comey and the top brass were dismissing the case against Hillary and there was about to be somewhat of a vote of no confidence by the agents at the time Comey, who always touted himself as an agent’s agent and was extremely bothered by this, had a crisis of conscious. Never believing for one second Hillary had anything to worry about, he used the newly found emails to reopen the investigation to win favor with the rank and file. I do not believe he thought for one second it would blow up like it did. However, it did blow up and yes I do believe it hurt Hillary and gave Trump a fairly big boost. Many people that were on the fence I assume probably voted for Trump instead of a President that could possibly be indicted and go on trial. I still think there was more than enough for a charge against Hillary for obstruction of justice but it was not pursued due to promises already made to President Clinton on that airplane. I have to get to your other questions later when I have some more time as I have to run.
 
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I feel really bad for people who are sheep to the liberal media. All they do is slam Trump and therefore that’s all some people know.
 
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