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End of the Bar Does Not Care, John Harbaugh

rmcjacket23 said:
So a) I'd expect both to get HC gigs this offseason and b) Kubiak is already an OC, so I don't see why he'd want to leave SEA for a lateral move or that SEA would even allow him to do it.

The usual caveat, and why I think its exponentially better to hire an offensive guy as HC than a defensive guy... any "young, good" OC you bring in, if he succeeds, has a max of 1-2 years before they get their own HC gig. And I personally don't think the 2026 roster is going to be a SB caliber roster, so I think to a certain extent you're wasting that opportunity.

Honestly, for me, above average DCs are pretty easy to find. The difference between Minter, Saleh and even Flores defense, compared to Zach Orr's, is about 2 points a week. Some of the absolute best DCs in this league have bounced around to various teams throughout their career.
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Have you actually watched our games? Orr's defense lays down and gives up multiple TDs late in the game every week. Teams like the Bills and Patriots would pick us apart every time.
 
RaineV1 said:
Have you actually watched our games? Orr's defense lays down and gives up multiple TDs late in the game every week. Teams like the Bills and Patriots would pick us apart every time.
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That's beside the point really - if Harbaugh's gone, so is Orr. New HC is bringing his own staff regardless of whether we hire an offensive or defensive guy.
 
RaineV1 said:
Have you actually watched our games? Orr's defense lays down and gives up multiple TDs late in the game every week. Teams like the Bills and Patriots would pick us apart every time.
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The argument is that finding a DC is easier than an OC. So hiring a head coach that was an OC might be the better move and just replacing Orr with whoever they choose.


I want an offensive minded coach who either keeps Monken but takes over in certain situations or maybe gives Tee Martin a shot at OC which is not likely since he will most likely want to bring his own guys. I like Tee Martin alot and I am not sure why lol
 
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Mike MacDonald putting up the helmets of the teams he beat like his trophy. This is the type of attitude we need from whatever HC we get.
 
OURavensFan said:

Giants fans discussing the possibility of getting Harbaugh, interesting split
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I will say, that first comment is right on the money no matter how we feel. The second we let Harbaugh go, he will still have plenty of offers. This isn't a Billick situation where he was done coaching, Harbaugh will land on his feet well. Steelers fans know that too when it comes to Tomlin, no matter how how things end they will both have opportunities the second they are available. The question is, would we try to trade Harbaugh and get some extra draft picks instead of outright firing him?
 
JO_75 said:
I will say, that first comment is right on the money no matter how we feel. The second we let Harbaugh go, he will still have plenty of offers. This isn't a Billick situation where he was done coaching, Harbaugh will land on his feet well. Steelers fans know that too when it comes to Tomlin, no matter how how things end they will both have opportunities the second they are available. The question is, would we try to trade Harbaugh and get some extra draft picks instead of outright firing him?
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I’m honestly not sure why Harbaugh would want to keep coaching, of course I don’t know him and maybe he does want to continue but a Front office position or working on television could be other avenues. Trading him for a draft pick would be pretty awesome but I’m not expecting that
 
John Harbaugh so bad at coaching, ESPN is talking about the crazy idea that we move on from Lamar. Lamar's not the issue, we 1000% have a coaching issue. Similar to Cincinnati, if they had to choose between Burrow and Zac Taylor, they are choosing Burrow every time. If we had to choose between Harbaugh and Lamar, we will choose Lamar every day.
 
RaineV1 said:
Have you actually watched our games? Orr's defense lays down and gives up multiple TDs late in the game every week. Teams like the Bills and Patriots would pick us apart every time.
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Sure, but Orr isn't an above average DC. Even if Harbaugh doesn't get fired, he's the first guy I think you'll see get replaced.

Even in our a current situation, replacing Orr is a shit ton easier than replacing Monken. And when you're talking about HC level, it gets even more challenging.
 
It's no secret I've wanted to move on from JH for a long while now. Basically for all of the reasons I'm seeing folks mention now. Nothing is new; he is who he is. He is going to have offers immediately if he's fired, but I don't think trading him would be a simple job, plus, I don't think after such a long tenure it would be fair to him. That might sound strange coming from me, but by just firing him we can move on immediately. I think both parties need that.

It's also no secret that I coveted Sean Payton, so I looked at his coaching tree a little. What about Joe Morgan or Joe Brady? Don't know much about them or their pedigree other than being in SP's coaching tree. It would be the same poaching scenario as Kubiak or others that have been mentioned; I just don't know too much about them. Lord knows we've had our share of coaches poached...
 
JO_75 said:
I will say, that first comment is right on the money no matter how we feel. The second we let Harbaugh go, he will still have plenty of offers. This isn't a Billick situation where he was done coaching, Harbaugh will land on his feet well. Steelers fans know that too when it comes to Tomlin, no matter how how things end they will both have opportunities the second they are available. The question is, would we try to trade Harbaugh and get some extra draft picks instead of outright firing him?
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I think EDC will let Harbaugh decide how he wants to go out. Any trade will be because it's a team he approves of going to.
 
RaineV1 said:
I think EDC will let Harbaugh decide how he wants to go out. Any trade will be because it's a team he approves of going to.
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OK so just to be clear... EDC doesn't decide anything in regards to John. EDC isn't John's boss. Steve is. If there's a HC trade (which I highly doubt is a possibility or is even being discussed), Steve has to sign off on the idea. EDC might be involved in the discussion of compensation, but he's not involved in determining John's fate.

And IF you're in the camp that you want John gone, I assure the very last person you want weighing in on that decision is EDC, because EDC will for certain want to keep him.
 
Here's some stuff to think about on whether Harbaugh leaves or stays:

1. Steve Bisciotti said he considered firing Harbaugh after 3 years of missing the Playoffs
2. Steve Bisciotti kept John Harbaugh because of how he kept the team together that year [2017] & how we kept fighting.
3. Steve Bisciotti said he won't give "Playoff or Bust" edit (indicating neither would he give "Super Bowl or Bust" edit because he may as well "fire him now" if that's the case.
4. Steve Bisciotti fired Brian Billick because he was losing more than winning and that he thought he had the nucleus of a team to get to the Super Bowl in 5 years (which was right) than sticking with Billick. The previous year in 2006, we looked great and did fantastic then fell flat due to injuries and too many turnovers (sounds eerily familiar)
5. Players said later after Brian Billick was fired that his message had gone stale and due to questionable play calling.
6. Steve Bisciotti consulted with Dick Cass & Ozzie Newsome last time he fired his HC.

So, these circumstances are different than Billick but also very similar.
 
I think my biggest takeaway this season that works against Harbaugh is that the roster is full of talented players, but we were never a good team. And I stress the word team there. If you can see the talent and results on every individual unit at some point this season but could never bring it together, that’s on coaching. And that’s hard for me to say as one that usually puts much more weight on players. Feel like this was a group of guys that played with confidence only a few times this year. Cant have that.
 
Simba said:
I think my biggest takeaway this season that works against Harbaugh is that the roster is full of talented players, but we were never a good team. And I stress the word team there. If you can see the talent and results on every individual unit at some point this season but could never bring it together, that’s on coaching. And that’s hard for me to say as one that usually puts much more weight on players. Feel like this was a group of guys that played with confidence only a few times this year. Cant have that.
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You can elaborate on this, and I'm sure it's stupid hot take stuff but Colin Cowherd is talking about us and the headline is... "Report: Clear Harbaugh has Become Tired of Jackson." Like wtf? Where does a report like that come from?
 
JO_75 said:
You can elaborate on this, and I'm sure it's stupid hot take stuff but Colin Cowherd is talking about us and the headline is... "Report: Clear Harbaugh has Become Tired of Jackson." Like wtf? Where does a report like that come from?
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Just talking heads being talking heads. Nothing more than that.
 
Simba said:
I think my biggest takeaway this season that works against Harbaugh is that the roster is full of talented players, but we were never a good team. And I stress the word team there. If you can see the talent and results on every individual unit at some point this season but could never bring it together, that’s on coaching. And that’s hard for me to say as one that usually puts much more weight on players. Feel like this was a group of guys that played with confidence only a few times this year. Cant have that.
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It’s the most damning issue for Harbaugh 100%. We’ve never put it together. It’s certainly on coaching but I wonder why? The most immediate and logical answer would be that his message has become stale.

The odd part is this team seems to have expected to pick up where we left off last year. It’s very weird because I wouldn’t expect that from Harbaugh. I don’t know who set those expectations nor do I know where they reside (whether players, coaches or everyone in the building) but they overestimated their team, preparation, and fell completely flat
 
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