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Next Up: @Falcons

Who SHOULD start at QB for the Ravens @ Falcons

  • Lamar Jackson

    Votes: 36 85.7%

  • Joe Flacco

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
balfan23 said:
For me, it comes down to being able to grind out yards and clock with a ground game, but hit some passes in spots. When Flacco has been under center, we've had the worst ground game (avg per carry) in the NFL. We know that Joe has always been a QB that needs a ground game to complement him. The inability to run prompts Marty to call yet another one if his 50+ pass play games. We know how well that works toward getting a W. Not very well.
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I think the inability to run the ball falls on plenty of things but I don’t think it’s mainly Joes fault. For one the line is blocking much better now then before, another is that the scheme looks more simple to me in terms of blocking and Gus Edwards is a better fit clearly then Alex Collins. Collins doesn’t really have much success on field even with Lamar as QB.

I think, and big credit to Lamar for this that his presence has definitely help Gus Edwards run the Football, but at the same time I think you can run the Football with a lot of success even with a pocket passer who is no threat to run himself. I think the run game can still do well even with Joe as we saw last year we just need the right fit. If we can run the Football and throw it as well then this team can be dangerous. I know people don’t want to hear it because let’s be honest Lamar is a fun player to watch and we’ve seen Joe for 11 years but I still think that with this schedule you bring Joe back.
 
I'll be at this game behind the Ravens bench :D.

First time seeing the Ravens in person and they aren't playing the Dolphins
 
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TheCity5 said:
I think the inability to run the ball falls on plenty of things but I don’t think it’s mainly Joes fault. For one the line is blocking much better now then before, another is that the scheme looks more simple to me in terms of blocking and Gus Edwards is a better fit clearly then Alex Collins. Collins doesn’t really have much success on field even with Lamar as QB.

I think, and big credit to Lamar for this that his presence has definitely help Gus Edwards run the Football, but at the same time I think you can run the Football with a lot of success even with a pocket passer who is no threat to run himself. I think the run game can still do well even with Joe as we saw last year we just need the right fit. If we can run the Football and throw it as well then this team can be dangerous. I know people don’t want to hear it because let’s be honest Lamar is a fun player to watch and we’ve seen Joe for 11 years but I still think that with this schedule you bring Joe back.
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here's 2 matt waldman breakdowns of the ravens running game based off the raiders game:

https://twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1066929820888702976
https://twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1066939264712302592

conceptually the running game is so different with lamar - the attention and numbers the threat of lamar gets creates opportunities for Gus inside and for bigger plays by jackson outside

here's some more examples of why this running game won't carry over to flacco from Michael Crawford of RSR

https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1067126522778140673
https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1067138584208187393 (read the 2nd tweet under this too as a follow up to why this play works so well)
https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1067145428431511552

In some ways the scheme is more simple, but it helps that defenders arent able to close and fly to the football like they would with flacco under centre which allows the OL to get on their blocks - it also helps that they arent having to block for a runner who might break to the outside to get outside the tackles which naturally creates more opportunities for holds or missed blocks - yes gus edwards would probably help the general effectiveness of the running game by making the blocking assignments easier (if not simpler) and by just being a more decisive runner but the improvement is exponential because of what lamar offers

but i think the clearest disparity is with collins - look at collins all year, and then look at how many times jackson came in in the redzone and collins gets a td run - collins is also a vastly more effective runner with jackson at qb even on limited carries

i will say this - buck allen is gone i think as soon as dixon is ready to go - he offers nothing in the passing game vs ty montgomery, he offers nothing in the running game vs anyone on the roster and ty montgomery and collins both seem to be better in blitz pickup and pass pro at this point too, will be interested to see how dixon runs with jackson (if jackson keeps the start and dixon gets some snaps)
 
TheCity5 said:
I think the inability to run the ball falls on plenty of things but I don’t think it’s mainly Joes fault. For one the line is blocking much better now then before, another is that the scheme looks more simple to me in terms of blocking and Gus Edwards is a better fit clearly then Alex Collins. Collins doesn’t really have much success on field even with Lamar as QB.

I think, and big credit to Lamar for this that his presence has definitely help Gus Edwards run the Football, but at the same time I think you can run the Football with a lot of success even with a pocket passer who is no threat to run himself. I think the run game can still do well even with Joe as we saw last year we just need the right fit. If we can run the Football and throw it as well then this team can be dangerous. I know people don’t want to hear it because let’s be honest Lamar is a fun player to watch and we’ve seen Joe for 11 years but I still think that with this schedule you bring Joe back.
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But that difference in the run game is not new in the past 2 games. That difference was visible when Flacco was starting and we had the few package plays that put Lamar under center and we ran the ball.

True that the run game should be better now than it was before even if we put Flacco back in, because no doubt Edwards is running much better than Collins was and perhaps our line is blocking a bit better - but I think there is little question that difference in our run game with Lamar is huge.

I'm not saying you'd have to be crazy to go back to Joe. it is a legit QB controversy. It is truly possible that we'd have a better chance of advancing to the playoffs with Joe - but IMO it is marginal. Given that, I'm ready to look to the future. Can you imagine if we get to the post season with Lamar? It will put this team a year ahead of schedule with where we want to go.
 
balfan23 said:
But that difference in the run game is not new in the past 2 games. That difference was visible when Flacco was starting and we had the few package plays that put Lamar under center and we ran the ball.

True that the run game should be better now than it was before even if we put Flacco back in, because no doubt Edwards is running much better than Collins was and perhaps our line is blocking a bit better - but I think there is little question that difference in our run game with Lamar is huge.

I'm not saying you'd have to be crazy to go back to Joe. it is a legit QB controversy. It is truly possible that we'd have a better chance of advancing to the playoffs with Joe - but IMO it is marginal. Given that, I'm ready to look to the future. Can you imagine if we get to the post season with Lamar? It will put this team a year ahead of schedule with where we want to go.
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It is huge - like defending vs two completely different teams. There is more space everywhere and everything happens faster.
 
Judon now leads the team in sacks with 6 and has had at least a half sack in the last 3 games. Is late blooming going to be a thing with Judon? Wtf man why can’t we just see this all year long. Does he not train hard enough in the offseason or something? I must say though I really love his attitude and demeanor, he’s always having fun lol
 
DeVito52 said:
Judon now leads the team in sacks with 6 and has had at least a half sack in the last 3 games. Is late blooming going to be a thing with Judon? Wtf man why can’t we just see this all year long. Does he not train hard enough in the offseason or something? I must say though I really love his attitude and demeanor, he’s always having fun lol
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ToP has a lot to do with it. Can't rush effectively if you're puffed out.
 
balfan23 said:
But that difference in the run game is not new in the past 2 games. That difference was visible when Flacco was starting and we had the few package plays that put Lamar under center and we ran the ball.

True that the run game should be better now than it was before even if we put Flacco back in, because no doubt Edwards is running much better than Collins was and perhaps our line is blocking a bit better - but I think there is little question that difference in our run game with Lamar is huge.

I'm not saying you'd have to be crazy to go back to Joe. it is a legit QB controversy. It is truly possible that we'd have a better chance of advancing to the playoffs with Joe - but IMO it is marginal. Given that, I'm ready to look to the future. Can you imagine if we get to the post season with Lamar? It will put this team a year ahead of schedule with where we want to go.
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Lamar is light years better in the passing game then he was in the preseason. I was horrified watching those ducks he was throwing, but now his passes are actually pretty good. He just needs to improve a little more on his timing and chemistry with his receivers but that will come with game experience. Overall, I am impressed with his progress and I love his passion for the game and eagerness to improve.
 
Grim said:
I’m wondering if Joe just retires honestly. Starting to think he could do that more and more
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The more serious this hip injury appears to be, the more likely that he may just call it quits. He's made more money than anyone of us can imagine, he's achieved beyond what most NFL QBs have and there comes a time when your health and well being down the road dictates your time is up. It is not hard to imagine that he would see himself there.

I know we'd all love to get a pick for him, but really, if he does bow out, he becomes one of those rare and commendable single team players. He's no HOFer, but he's high up in the Ravens ring of honor.
 
allblackraven said:
After what happened to Dennis Pitta, they ought to be super cautious. Flacco should still have some years to play.
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Yeah the most recent report of his requiring an additional medical eval may render this QB controversy conversation moot.

There is absolutely ZERO need to risk his health - regardless of our position in the standings or who we have backing him up. Given Dennis is a close friend, he will know the risks all too well. Never mind his ability to play in the coming years, you have to wonder how much that sort of will haunt you later in life if you suffer a dislocation.
 
balfan23 said:
Yeah the most recent report of his requiring an additional medical eval may render this QB controversy conversation moot.

There is absolutely ZERO need to risk his health - regardless of our position in the standings or who we have backing him up. Given Dennis is a close friend, he will know the risks all too well. Never mind his ability to play in the coming years, you have to wonder how much that sort of will haunt you later in life if you suffer a dislocation.
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I don't think it's been a regression with that injury. Harbaugh said Joe is visiting specialist to get the advice on whether to resume practice.
 
balfan23 said:
The more serious this hip injury appears to be, the more likely that he may just call it quits. He's made more money than anyone of us can imagine, he's achieved beyond what most NFL QBs have and there comes a time when your health and well being down the road dictates your time is up. It is not hard to imagine that he would see himself there.

I know we'd all love to get a pick for him, but really, if he does bow out, he becomes one of those rare and commendable single team players. He's no HOFer, but he's high up in the Ravens ring of honor.
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Yeah I think he very well could retire for the reasons you gave. That’s my thinking as well
 
cobrajet said:
Lamar is light years better in the passing game then he was in the preseason. I was horrified watching those ducks he was throwing, but now his passes are actually pretty good. He just needs to improve a little more on his timing and chemistry with his receivers but that will come with game experience. Overall, I am impressed with his progress and I love his passion for the game and eagerness to improve.
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just look at how much he improved from week 11 to week 12 too
 
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