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Lamar Jackson

Davesta said:
I truly believe that was the last straw for Lamar. Harbaugh not nipping that narrative. He tried to put pressure on our franchise QB to go out there and play hurt. It got so loud, that Lamar had to tweet out his own injury to defend himself because his HC wouldn’t do it.
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It wouldn't have mattered. Half the people in here spend the whole year bitching about Harbaugh lying to them about everything. But now we want him to be transparent about injuries and we're just going to take what he says as gospel?

Its a weird look from the fanbase to blame the HC for not being transparent about player injuries. A very weird look.

Its also a weird look for a QB who just demanded a trade to be spending literally any time, let alone the copious amounts of time he has, on Twitter defending himself against fans who don't pay his bills. I would think he'd be spending more time flying his ass to Arizona to speak with literally every single franchise that's currently there and convincing them to make an offer to him.

Or at least that's what I would expect a players agent to be doing...
 
Davesta said:
I truly believe that was the last straw for Lamar. Harbaugh not nipping that narrative. He tried to put pressure on our franchise QB to go out there and play hurt. It got so loud, that Lamar had to tweet out his own injury to defend himself because his HC wouldn’t do it.
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If this is all because Lamar is not smart enough to understand that coaches are not going to give a straight answer about injuries to avoid giving a competitive advantage, then its due to Lamar's stupidity not Harbs using standard coach speak.
 
Adreme said:
If this is all because Lamar is not smart enough to understand that coaches are not going to give a straight answer about injuries to avoid giving a competitive advantage, then its due to Lamar's stupidity not Harbs using standard coach speak.
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Harbaugh or any head coach never really go in detail with the media regarding a player injury. I get it as fans we want the head coach to be more open and transparent regarding the matter but most head coaches simply are not. If it's true that Lamar Jackson wants to be a Patriot then if he felt a certain way about Harbaugh not defending him then oooh boy he not ready for Bill .
 
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Adreme said:
If Lamar got his 50m AAV, and lets make it a 4 year deal to balance it, he would make more under that contract then Allen did when he signed it 2 years ago. He probably makes enough under to make up for Lamar having a smaller rookie deal which neither side controlled, but that one is harder to show with math (he would make 26m more which I think is more than the rookie deal difference but its hard to say)

Meanwhile, if you are offering me a deal where I get lock in my raise now or I can wait 2 years and get 15% more (which is about what he would get if he took the deal in front of him) any sane person would take the latter. There are a lot of markets built on MUCH smaller average returns than that. The evidence of this is that Lamar played about as badly in those 2 years as was possible and he is still getting an offer that would put him ahead. The smart move financially was to wait but it was also to take the deal after waiting. Yes Allen got his signing bonus earlier but considering the stagnant market that 15% you get by waiting is simply better returns than you should expect.
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Right, but the problem is you're assuming the other parties deal won't change during that time. Josh Allen is going to get an extension and a raise likely in the next 2-3 years. So when Lamar is making $50M in 2025 or 2026, Allen will be making at least that much, if not more.

And why do you think 15% for two years is a good return? For starters, 15% is basically the % of price inflation we've seen the last two years, which means $1.15 today was worth roughly $1 two years ago. So he's not in a better purchasing position.
Second, 7.5% annually is the long run average return on the market over a 20-30 year period, and its much, much, much higher over a 10 year period.

At the very maximum, you could argue its a neutral position to wait. The problem in this particular industry is that people don't get guaranteed contracts, and durability and production pretty much universally decline with age. Couple that with high end players basically being able to readjust their contracts when they see fit, and waiting almost never works out.
 
Davesta said:
I truly believe that was the last straw for Lamar. Harbaugh not nipping that narrative. He tried to put pressure on our franchise QB to go out there and play hurt. It got so loud, that Lamar had to tweet out his own injury to defend himself because his HC wouldn’t do it.
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Lamar’s “last straw” = $$$. If he gets what he wants all will be forgiven.

Also, Harbs is a HC. He wants his best players on the field. I’m not even convinced that Harbs knew the full extent of his injury, and was visibly frustrated at one point because he was telling everyone that Lamar would play before season end, and then he didn’t. Did Lamar use a personal physician or was he diagnosed by team physician? It makes a huge difference in how information is allowed to be shared to public, according to HIPPA. Did Harbs know the level of PCL injury, or did Lamar keep that under wraps until that tweet? I have more questions about all of that then I have answers.
 
Davesta said:
I truly believe that was the last straw for Lamar. Harbaugh not nipping that narrative. He tried to put pressure on our franchise QB to go out there and play hurt. It got so loud, that Lamar had to tweet out his own injury to defend himself because his HC wouldn’t do it.
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Yeah the "last straw" is when he signs the extension.

Honestly about 20 minutes after he publicly made his little trade request, my perceived likelihood of him remaining a Ravens skyrocketed. The number of teams with both the desire and capability to bring us a trade offer is extremely small. I see 3-4 teams, at most, and I think that's a very big stretch for some of them.

I think all signs point to this thing getting to July, and him making a decision whether to take our offer or play on the tag. I don't think some great big trade or even contract offer for him is coming from another team. I'd kind of hope it would, so we can get this over with, but I don't expect it.
 
CharlieF said:
Think about this- when Lamar won his MVP it was before these dudes were playing- Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, and Lawrence. Allen was a rookie. So, Jackson has been passed by these guys, owns 1 playoff victory, and hasn't finished the last two seasons. The Browns will only set the market for desperation and stupidity. Deshaun Watson may not even be top 10 QB. At any rate, no QB should make more than Mahomes.
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...i hate these new trolls. Mahomes won the sb Lamars mvp year and Allen was drafted the same year as Lamar. And Allen looked like shit until they got Diggs
 
As long as the relationship isn't broken beyond repair, the Ravens are still most likely to sign Lamar because they just need each other the most.

Right now, the Ravens decision makers have a lot of fan support and a lot of Ravens fans are 'done with Lamar etc' ( and it's not just the ones who have been waiting to be done with him ever since he was drafted, for 'reasons').

However, that support is very much a part of this moment, with Lamar unsigned and the Ravens in stasis. Fast forward to the middle of the season, with Lamar playing like his usual self somewhere else, putting that team high up in the playoff standings. Meanwhile the Ravens are bad, losing a lot of games, but, because the defense is too good, not losing quite enough to get into position to draft a QB, with only 2 late 1sts in return for their QB.

In that situation, fans will start asking why the Ravens were the only team in decades that couldn't keep their franchise QB. All the criticisms of Harbaugh losing the locker room, driving players away through loyalty to Roman and Saunders, come rushing back. All the criticism of EDC failing to re-sign or build around his QB reappears.

Harbaugh and DeCosta know that their job security is very much tied to Lamar remaining a Raven and so they'll be motivated to pay him. If the breach is mostly financial, Lamar will be back.
 
QtR Nevermore said:
I don't see anything in those tweets that hurts his situation. In fact, his sharing the Ruiz tweets might even help by drawing attention to them and reminding everyone how good he's been.
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So you think the coaches of other teams don’t know those numbers? If any team is even thinking about paying up they definitely know his stat lines. They also know the stat where he has only won one playoff game in 3 trips, and that he’s missed games at critical times during the past 2 seasons.

The tweets may not be hurting him but they are not helping. He’s basically sparing with fans on twitter. Not a good look.
 
QtR Nevermore said:
As long as the relationship isn't broken beyond repair, the Ravens are still most likely to sign Lamar because they just need each other the most.

Right now, the Ravens decision makers have a lot of fan support and a lot of Ravens fans are 'done with Lamar etc' ( and it's not just the ones who have been waiting to be done with him ever since he was drafted, for 'reasons').

However, that support is very much a part of this moment, with Lamar unsigned and the Ravens in stasis. Fast forward to the middle of the season, with Lamar playing like his usual self somewhere else, putting that team high up in the playoff standings. Meanwhile the Ravens are bad, losing a lot of games, but, because the defense is too good, not losing quite enough to get into position to draft a QB, with only 2 late 1sts in return for their QB.

In that situation, fans will start asking why the Ravens were the only team in decades that couldn't keep their franchise QB. All the criticisms of Harbaugh losing the locker room, driving players away through loyalty to Roman and Saunders, come rushing back. All the criticism of EDC failing to re-sign or build around his QB reappears.

Harbaugh and DeCosta know that their job security is very much tied to Lamar remaining a Raven and so they'll be motivated to pay him. If the breach is mostly financial, Lamar will be back.
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A lot of weird hypotheticals in here.
1. Why are they only getting two late first rounders and who is giving it to them?
2. If we get to that point, everybody will know why we're losing, and everybody will know why they didn't keep Lamar. Basically same thing as today. The Lamar slurpers will likely leave the fanbase anyway, and the one's that stay will know the reasons for it and will understand what the transition to a new QB entails.
This franchise has lost before. It'll lose again. Most fans stayed. Some will leave. No action the Ravens can take will change that.

And if Lamar walks, it won't be because of Eric, because its not really his call. Steve knows this. Eric will get to pick another QB, and then he and John will be evaluated based on how that goes.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Right, but the problem is you're assuming the other parties deal won't change during that time. Josh Allen is going to get an extension and a raise likely in the next 2-3 years. So when Lamar is making $50M in 2025 or 2026, Allen will be making at least that much, if not more.

And why do you think 15% for two years is a good return? For starters, 15% is basically the % of price inflation we've seen the last two years, which means $1.15 today was worth roughly $1 two years ago. So he's not in a better purchasing position.
Second, 7.5% annually is the long run average return on the market over a 20-30 year period, and its much, much, much higher over a 10 year period.

At the very maximum, you could argue its a neutral position to wait. The problem in this particular industry is that people don't get guaranteed contracts, and durability and production pretty much universally decline with age. Couple that with high end players basically being able to readjust their contracts when they see fit, and waiting almost never works out.
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He will get an extension in the next 2-3 years but if Lamar signs a 4-6 year deal so will he so future extensions would be even (though Allen is playing better lately so he will probably get more if they extend around the same time).

Also inflation only matters if you plan on spending the extra 20m+ immediately which you would not. You would be investing most of it and most safe investments or even normal investments would not have paid out 15% over the past 2 years (especially after the fees for making said investments). So the inflation argument is a nonfactor. The only relevant argument is can you make that 20m into 28m in 2 years and the answer is probably not with the market being relatively flat.

As for the risk reward, Lamar had about the worst 2 years possible for him to have had. He played barely above average football and missed the ends of the past 2 years with injury and was STILL offered the big deal because 4 seasons ago he won MVP. The risk was seemingly nonexistent once he won that MVP. Here is how crazy it is. Daniel Jones had 1 year of average football in his entire career and got a contract barley lower (that starts at the same time). It was not even above average. It was decidedly average.
 
gtalk12 said:
There's like 2 factions of extremists in here lmfao
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I’m enjoying both. My head knows Lamar is what’s best for this team to win a SB. My heart says fuck him, let’s be petty and dump him.
 
Adreme said:
He will get an extension in the next 2-3 years but if Lamar signs a 4-6 year deal so will he so future extensions would be even (though Allen is playing better lately so he will probably get more if they extend around the same time).

Also inflation only matters if you plan on spending the extra 20m+ immediately which you would not. You would be investing most of it and most safe investments or even normal investments would not have paid out 15% over the past 2 years (especially after the fees for making said investments). So the inflation argument is a nonfactor. The only relevant argument is can you make that 20m into 28m in 2 years and the answer is probably not with the market being relatively flat.

As for the risk reward, Lamar had about the worst 2 years possible for him to have had. He played barely above average football and missed the ends of the past 2 years with injury and was STILL offered the big deal because 4 seasons ago he won MVP. The risk was seemingly nonexistent once he won that MVP. Here is how crazy it is. Daniel Jones had 1 year of average football in his entire career and got a contract barley lower (that starts at the same time). It was not even above average. It was decidedly average.
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1. I certainly don't think the last two years are the "floor" for Lamar. Obviously, he could simply be more injured than he already was, and obviously, there's no guarantee a new OC will be better for him. Its entirely possible that a new OC installs a more pass-focused offense, asks Lamar to run and scramble less, and we find out that doesn't fit Lamar's skill sets.
Neither of those things happening would surprise anybody who has watched Lamar play the last 4-5 years.
2. Daniel Jones got a contract that was a) shorter in length than the one Lamar was offered, b) was 20% less in AAV, and c) roughly 50% less in practical and gtd at signing guarantees. Jones deal also contains zero guaranteed $ beyond year 2.

Not to mention the obvious caveats, which is that pretty much anybody would assume Allen will have a longer career than Lamar, and at the moment, it seems more likely Lamar will be in year 7 or even year 8 of his career before he signs a long term deal. And the franchise tag isn't even a market-value deal for him.
 
Hypothetically, If Lamar Jackson were to sit out in 2023, Do the ravens Have any sort of rights to him In 2024 is he A free agent Able to sign Where ever he wishes?
 
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