Definitely not a Darious Williams thread

[RL52TheGreatest]

Not rotating d-linemen was Pees' greatest weakness, imo. That should be different with Wink. On the last point, I think I actually have more faith in Sieler being our 5tech than I do Urban. But we'll see if Urban can make the jump.

Urban was looking like a game-wrecker before he got hurt. He just needs to stay on the field and I think we'll see some great things from him.

 

[rossihunter2]

I’m glad your optimistic I am too, but until Timmy and bowser show that they can replace Suggs we’re not set at Edge. Williams is only a run stuffer which is not valuable in today’s league. Cj is a free agent next season and we all know he isn’t good in coverage. Only player that has actually shown promise is Humphrey. This defense has holes and they’re going to get exposed and one point or another.

that's a fair point on tyus and timmy but they do have the draft pedigree to at least offer something

williams may be a primary run stuffer but urban and especially henry have been great against the pass with differing styles too - wormley looks promising and davis and pierce are also solid run stuffers - the core of that unit is young and dominant in every facet except consistent interior pass rush - but we have upside in that regards with henry and urban (and maybe sieler turns into something but that would be a bonus)

CJ will never hit free agency and while he got isolated in certain matchups in man coverage towards the end of last year he's an absolute beast in zone so you're wrong about him not being good in coverage - there's a reason his peers on the team think he's incredible and there's a reason coaches and sports writers and other players around the league consistently vote him for post-season accolades

humphrey looks great so far

as young cores go that's a pretty damn good one - we have most of the spine of a defence in place (once CJ is extended/re-signed) for the next half 3-4 years at least which is a long time in NFL terms

 

[Justdewinit20]

that's a fair point on tyus and timmy but they do have the draft pedigree to at least offer something

williams may be a primary run stuffer but urban and especially henry have been great against the pass with differing styles too - wormley looks promising and davis and pierce are also solid run stuffers - the core of that unit is young and dominant in every facet except consistent interior pass rush - but we have upside in that regards with henry and urban (and maybe sieler turns into something but that would be a bonus)

CJ will never hit free agency and while he got isolated in certain matchups in man coverage towards the end of last year he's an absolute beast in zone so you're wrong about him not being good in coverage - there's a reason his peers on the team think he's incredible and there's a reason coaches and sports writers and other players around the league consistently vote him for post-season accolades

humphrey looks great so far

as young cores go that's a pretty damn good one - we have most of the spine of a defence in place (once CJ is extended/re-signed) for the next half 3-4 years at least which is a long time in NFL terms

Wormley couldn’t even see the field last season. Urban is always hurt, so you can’t rely on him. Henry showed flashes, but he’s been inconsistent, he was such a raw player coming out of Michigan. CJ is a great run stuffer, but to say he is good in coverage in zone or man is ridiculous. In zone he fails to get enough depth most of the time and against a faster quicker TEs like most of the good teams in the NFL have he stands no chance man to man. What accolades are you talking about? He finished second in rookie of the year rankings and he was rated the number 98 best player in the NFL by his peers this season. That isn’t much to be excited about.

As of this season we are a healthy jimmy, an elite pass rusher and good coverage LB away from being a top 5 defense. Looking into the future with Suggs,Weddle and Jimmy all possibly gone. It’s doesnt look so promising especially if we keep drafting quantity over quality.

 

[rossihunter2]

Wormley couldn’t even see the field last season. Urban is always hurt, so you can’t rely on him. Henry showed flashes, but he’s been inconsistent, he was such a raw player coming out of Michigan. CJ is a great run stuffer, but to say he is good in coverage in zone or man is ridiculous. In zone he fails to get enough depth most of the time and against a faster quicker TEs like most of the good teams in the NFL have he stands no chance man to man. What accolades are you talking about? He finished second in rookie of the year rankings and he was rated the number 98 best player in the NFL by his peers this season. That isn’t much to be excited about.

As of this season we are a healthy jimmy, an elite pass rusher and good coverage LB away from being a top 5 defense. Looking into the future with Suggs,Weddle and Jimmy all possibly gone. It’s doesnt look so promising especially if we keep drafting quantity over quality.

dude i dont know what you've been watching with CJ - he's an absolute beast in the middle of our defence who's much much more than a "run stuffer" - he was snubbed at 98 and the bottom half of that list is always weirdly because of the way the list is ordered (you have to be picked as a top 20 player by enough other players that you get in there) - but the accolades im talking about are 3x pro bowl, 3x 2nd team all-pro for example...

and i dont know that you are looking at our depth chart: if we purge all the old players our defence still next year consists of young exciting pieces...

willie henry, brandon williams, michael pierce, CJ mosley, matt judon, (wormley, bowser and timmy), marlon humphrey, tavon young, maurice canady, jaylen hill, chuck clark, tony jefferson

that doesnt even include rookies like elliott, averett, kenny young, sieler

even if we were to assume that wormley bowser and timmy all dont pan out and that we dont bring in any free agents or future draft picks - the defence still is really only short at free safety and edge... so yes the defence is absolutely stacked both now and moving forwards and that's even assuming all the 2017 day 2 picks dont pan out - which seems unlikely that none of them would work out...

now if they do continue to develop well then edge isnt an issue and our DL remains a solid unit and FS becomes the only real need on defence with depth at every other position and level of the defence

so respectfully i have no idea what you're looking at

 

[Sami84]

Personally, i think urban is what he is, an average NFL 5 tech. I don't see him getting better.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Personally, i think urban is what he is, an average NFL 5 tech. I don't see him getting better.

Urban is a game wrecker on the rare occasion that he's healthy

 

[RavensMania]

Mosely played zone defense more than most linebackers in the league. He’s actually much better in coverage than he’s given credit for. @Truth

 

[redrum52]

Yea, I don't get where people got this narrative that Mosley is bad in coverage.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

He can't man cover TEs, he struggles with speedy TEs on crossing routes. He's basically elite in Tampa 2 concepts. deep zone drops, deep seam, etc. he's got ups and downs in coverage, the up much higher than the down.

I think the clamoring is for a speedy explosive LB in general. The type that can almost cover like a safety i.e. Telvin smith/deone bucannon/Sean lee.

 

[DeVito52]

Not rotating d-linemen was Pees' greatest weakness, imo. That should be different with Wink. On the last point, I think I actually have more faith in Sieler being our 5tech than I do Urban. But we'll see if Urban can make the jump.

There's literally no jump to make. He's already made it. He's a starting Dlineman in this league. The ONLY concerns regarding Urban is his health. And he's basically never been able to stay healthy even in college so it's a big concern.

 

[Jacquouille]

I have minimal concerns with interior pass rush. It will be fine if:

-Brandon Williams moves back to NT where he belongs and makes the defense better.
- We actually have a good Dline rotation instead of 2 guys playing 90% of the snaps.
-Urban stays healthy (please). Having a true 5tech will do wonders and allow for a better rotation.

Yeah I never understood why they put BWill at DT, I understand Pierce is good but not so much that you'd change the front forde him.

 

[allblackraven]

Yeah I never understood why they put BWill at DT, I understand Pierce is good but not so much that you'd change the front forde him.

They hoped BW can rush the QB, so they could feel better about the contract they gave him?

 

[Jacquouille]

They hoped BW can rush the QB, so they could feel better about the contract they gave him?

Oh yeah, that. Let's start by putting away that ugly 4 YPC average and we'll see about the pass rush.

 

[Tru11]

Urban is a game wrecker on the rare occasion that he's healthy

the only thing urban has been wrecking is his body.

when talking about game wreckers on defense one usually think of guys like donald or von miller or mack.....

 

[Justdewinit20]

He can't man cover TEs, he struggles with speedy TEs on crossing routes. He's basically elite in Tampa 2 concepts. deep zone drops, deep seam, etc. he's got ups and downs in coverage, the up much higher than the down.

I think the clamoring is for a speedy explosive LB in general. The type that can almost cover like a safety i.e. Telvin smith/deone bucannon/Sean lee.

Deion Jones, Bobby Wagner, Luke K, even Myles Jack has shown the ability to stay on his man. I wouldn’t call him elite in Tampa 2. He does have trouble dropping to the proper depth at times. Honestly he seems a bit too slow, he’s not the prototype LB in today’s league. Take him back to 2008 when guys like Patrick Willis we’re dominating he’d be a perfect fit. In today’s league man to man I wouldn’t trust him against a decent receiving TE.

 

[Justdewinit20]

dude i dont know what you've been watching with CJ - he's an absolute beast in the middle of our defence who's much much more than a "run stuffer" - he was snubbed at 98 and the bottom half of that list is always weirdly because of the way the list is ordered (you have to be picked as a top 20 player by enough other players that you get in there) - but the accolades im talking about are 3x pro bowl, 3x 2nd team all-pro for example...

and i dont know that you are looking at our depth chart: if we purge all the old players our defence still next year consists of young exciting pieces...

willie henry, brandon williams, michael pierce, CJ mosley, matt judon, (wormley, bowser and timmy), marlon humphrey, tavon young, maurice canady, jaylen hill, chuck clark, tony jefferson

that doesnt even include rookies like elliott, averett, kenny young, sieler

even if we were to assume that wormley bowser and timmy all dont pan out and that we dont bring in any free agents or future draft picks - the defence still is really only short at free safety and edge... so yes the defence is absolutely stacked both now and moving forwards and that's even assuming all the 2017 day 2 picks dont pan out - which seems unlikely that none of them would work out...

now if they do continue to develop well then edge isnt an issue and our DL remains a solid unit and FS becomes the only real need on defence with depth at every other position and level of the defence

so respectfully i have no idea what you're looking at

Stop with the pro bowls they are nothing but a popularity contest. I wonder why CJ has been named to 3 SECOND team all pros? He has his flaws in coverage, but a great run stuffer
At the CB position you just named Humphrey on the outside and a bunch of slot CBs. Yes the slot CB is valuable, but you need two good outside CBs. No Tavon Young isn’t an outside CB, if you don’t believe me watch the Giants and Cowboys game from 2016.
Do you realize how hard it is too find good edge players and free safeties? I’m not talking about run stuffing edge players, but actual pass rushers. There’s not many available that actually produce. A true free safety has been litterally the hardest position to find. You have Earl Thomas, Malik Hooker, and Kevin Byard as true deep single high safeties. I’m not even sure if Byard can play that position consistently. It’s not an easy fix.

 

[rossihunter2]

Deion Jones, Bobby Wagner, Luke K, even Myles Jack has shown the ability to stay on his man. I wouldn’t call him elite in Tampa 2. He does have trouble dropping to the proper depth at times. Honestly he seems a bit too slow, he’s not the prototype LB in today’s league. Take him back to 2008 when guys like Patrick Willis we’re dominating he’d be a perfect fit. In today’s league man to man I wouldn’t trust him against a decent receiving TE.

i dont know who you're watching when you're watching CJ Mosley then...

 

[rossihunter2]

Stop with the pro bowls they are nothing but a popularity contest. I wonder why CJ has been named to 3 SECOND team all pros? He has his flaws in coverage, but a great run stuffer
At the CB position you just named Humphrey on the outside and a bunch of slot CBs. Yes the slot CB is valuable, but you need two good outside CBs. No Tavon Young isn’t an outside CB, if you don’t believe me watch the Giants and Cowboys game from 2016.
Do you realize how hard it is too find good edge players and free safeties? I’m not talking about run stuffing edge players, but actual pass rushers. There’s not many available that actually produce. A true free safety has been litterally the hardest position to find. You have Earl Thomas, Malik Hooker, and Kevin Byard as true deep single high safeties. I’m not even sure if Byard can play that position consistently. It’s not an easy fix.

so you're telling me that being named 2nd team all-pro only behind kuechly and wagner for 3 of his 4 years in the league means he's not a good coverage linebacker?

to be 2nd team all-pro (except in that one weird year when there were like 6 2nd team all pro lbs) you have to get at worst the 4th most votes for best player at your position in the league...

and i dont know what your argument is with the CBS - we're talking about this team being set up with a nice corps for the future - you're talking about it as if its only this year's group and we have to be set for all of time... we have jimmy smith and brandon carr (and maurice canady) to play outside corner this year and obviously as they leave they will be replaced but at the heart of that backend we will still have 2/3 CB starters in place moving forwards and depth at the position - that's pretty incredible

and tavon young is a slot corner first but on a matchup basis will also be effective on the outside - one of the top 5 corners in the league is chris harris jr and he's a "slot" corner, likewise tredavious white...

and yes its hard to find free safeties but id argue that most draft classes have edge rushers that you can acquire and we have a stack full of young promising ones who we get to find out about

but if an entire unit is only short of an edge rusher, free safety and number 2/3 corner then you're in a hell of a position going into any offseason...

 

[cobrajet]

Tavon and Averett are both skilled enough to switch off between slot and the outside. Tavon was damn good from the outside in 2016. Size be damned, dude has skills.

Ozzie has set up our defense... Team in general quite nicely up for Jackson. We need to get WRs and possibly a Yanda replacement in the future but if Jackson develops into what he is capable of developing into Ozzie has put the team in potential dynasty mode with how good the defense and offense look for the future...

I am still concerned about our offensive line. We do not have much depth and still a little concerned about who is going to step up at Center.

 

[cdp]

so you're telling me that being named 2nd team all-pro only behind kuechly and wagner for 3 of his 4 years in the league means he's not a good coverage linebacker?

to be 2nd team all-pro (except in that one weird year when there were like 6 2nd team all pro lbs) you have to get at worst the 4th most votes for best player at your position in the league...

and i dont know what your argument is with the CBS - we're talking about this team being set up with a nice corps for the future - you're talking about it as if its only this year's group and we have to be set for all of time... we have jimmy smith and brandon carr (and maurice canady) to play outside corner this year and obviously as they leave they will be replaced but at the heart of that backend we will still have 2/3 CB starters in place moving forwards and depth at the position - that's pretty incredible

and tavon young is a slot corner first but on a matchup basis will also be effective on the outside - one of the top 5 corners in the league is chris harris jr and he's a "slot" corner, likewise tredavious white...

and yes its hard to find free safeties but id argue that most draft classes have edge rushers that you can acquire and we have a stack full of young promising ones who we get to find out about

but if an entire unit is only short of an edge rusher, free safety and number 2/3 corner then you're in a hell of a position going into any offseason...

Mosley is one of the premier LB's in this league. The thing last season was Mosley had nobody next to him who could actually cover RB's or TE's.
I think all of us want to extend him just not for top dollar. We overpaid for too many guys. Can't do that again.
Like paying Williams as a pass rushing DT, but we all know he hasn't the ability to do so and after being one of the better NT we play him out of position. Same thing again with Jefferson.
I hope Weedle has recovered well after all those minor injuries. But we still need a FS, we don't even have a backup on our roster.