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Lamar, The Running Game and The Defensive Collapse

I think, if you put Lamar on the same team Joe had, we would not have lost today and we would be the number one seed in the playoffs this season.
I don’t get why Joe and Lamar are ever compared. Lamar is far and away a better Qb was. People(not you) keeping saying if this was Joe we’d give him whatever he wants lol, absolutely not man. Love Joe but he was the most average QB that was carried but some great running games and defenses
 
Okay, I've had time to simmer and gather my thoughts and I'm just going to spew them out.

1. If this is what Greg Roman has to offer offensively, then why is he here? I don't know how much of the passing game improving is Tee Martin and Keith Williams, how much is Greg Roman, and how much is Lamar Jackson just being an elite quarterback and it's hard to have a bad passing game with an elite quarterback, but what I do know is that the running game is supposed to be Greg Roman's forte and right now, they're awful. Take away Lamar's long run and the Ravens had 3.2 yards per carry. And most of that was really just Lamar breaking a few nice runs. I shutter to think what the running game looks like with someone like Joe Flacco in at quarterback.

It seems like the Ravens are getting away from the read option on running plays. Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one, and that may be due to Lamar wanting to run less and focus on being more of a passer. If that is the case, can the running game prop itself up on its own? Can the Ravens run a smash mouth football style when Lamar isn't accounting for a guaranteed 1,000 yard season and threatening defenses and drawing so much attention to himself? I don't know.

With all of that said, it's very frustrating with the run game (which is supposed to be Greg Roman's forte) because the Ravens only really sustained one long drive. Every other drive outside of the 10 minute drive was 3:01 or less. The Ravens are just absolutely failing to grind the clock and it ended up costing them big time. It's an absolute failure that the Ravens allowed four touchdown passes in the fourth quarter, but the Dolphins had four possessions in the fourth quarter largely because the Ravens could not sustain a drive.

And most infuriatingly, the absolute commitment to what wasn't working. The run game was ass with the running backs. The Ravens had the ball five times within the five yard line on one drive and four times at the 1. Why would you run all five times when you've seen it stuffed? And then not only that, but the Ravens kept doubling down on it in critical situations. Personally, I'd have done what the Patriots did in 2014 against the Ravens in the playoffs- literally just stop running with the running backs. Use the pass game as an extension of the running game if you want, but Lamar was absolutely cooking. I'd have rather placed the ball in the hands of the best player on your team instead of *checks notes* Mike Davis and Kenyan Drake... Yeah, they aren't it, chief.

I'm getting a little scrambled with my thoughts, but just to add this in- I have zero issue with going for it on fourth twice. However, I have extreme issues with the short yardage play calling. The dive didn't work the first five times. Why would it work the next five?

2. Just an absolute failure by the defense. I know a lot came down to injuries, but where was the pass rush? After the pass rush performance against the Jets, I'm actually in disbelief that the Ravens disappeared as much as they did. Miami did some work to revamp their offensive line, but it's not like they got the 2014 Cowboys offensive line out there. This offensive line, minus Terron Armstead, feels like it's pretty much a wash with the 2021 line and that line was considered the worst in the NFL and one of the worst lines in recent memory.

It's just infuriating because Tua is an atrocious quarterback on the move and when pressured. I hate PFF with a passion, but I don't know how else to really get this point across, but they graded Tua -40 points when pressured vs not pressured.

So, we have a terrible offensive line and a quarterback that's poor against pressure. The Ravens showed a really good pass rush, especially from the interior against the Jets, so naturally this works in their favor, right? I just don't get how the Ravens managed to manufacture zero pressure. The commentators pointed out that on three straight plays, Houston was unblocked and that honestly feels like the only pressure the Ravens got. I know they only finished with two quarterback hits.

I absolutely loathed Wink because he was unable to get pressure while being the most blitz happy coordinator in the NFL. He showed no creativity and zero ability to manufacture a pass rush. It's infuriating that the issue reared its ugly head again. However, I can't hold that too much against MacDonald because...

3. Eric DeCosta really fumbled the ball. The Ravens knew coming into the season that Ojabo is coming off of an achilles, Bowser is coming off of an achilles, Edwards is coming off of an achilles, and Dobbins is coming off of a blown up knee. Naturally, it would seem wise to have a contingency plan.

I know the Ravens were in on ZDS, but once that fell through, it really seemed like the Ravens got caught with their pants down. They had no contingency. So instead, the Ravens are now relying on two OLBs on the main roster and PS call ups, which is great for a premium position in the NFL. I really do hope that Bowser and Ojabo come back and have great seasons, but in the very real chance that the injuries cause them to have slow seasons, what then? What are the Ravens going to do?

I have the same thought process about the running backs, but so far, it appears they wouldn't make a ton of difference, anyway. The line is just not getting it done and the only real switch I could see is Stanley in for Mekari, but Stanley hasn't been known to be the most road grading of tackles. I mean, he's a good run blocker, but he's not going to be the missing link that all of a sudden turns the failures of the running game back to 2019.

I just view the failures of the offseason like how I did in 2020 when Yanda retired. Everyone and their mother, except apparently the Ravens, knew that losing Yanda was an absolutely massive blow and would require a very concerted effort to make sure the offensive line didn't fall apart because of how much the Ravens were losing with no Yanda. Well, the Ravens didn't have a contingency plan and rolled the dice on Phillips and it blew up in their faces. They of course remedied this in 2021 by getting Zeitler, who has been great, but why is it taking a full season to fix the known issues? In the case of the pass rush, more than one.

The sad thing- it's not going to get any easier because Lamar is not playing himself into a cheap contract at this rate. At this rate, he's going to cost even more and then roster construction gets even tighter. The Ravens have got to do better.

So, anyway, I view it as a top down failure at every level of the team. I think the team, outside of Lamar and a select few others, really blew this game. And that really sucks because this could very well be a "what if" game come playoff time.
 
he is the best QB in our franchise history, he's one of the few genuinely elite and game-defining players in the NFL right now, he makes us relevant, face of the franchise

there is literally no empirical reason to think this team or this franchise is better off without lamar no matter what the reimbursement is, no matter how much he might cost
Lamar Jackson is Lamar Jackson, but a rookie quarterback could be anything. It could even be Lamar Jackson.
 
Have not seen too many people on this website wanting to move on from Lamar. Other sites…yes. Now Harbaugh is a different story.
There's a select few. They're easy to spot and they're also people who I wouldn't trust for reasoned analysis, so it makes sense.
 
I had to stop watching. Number 5, I swear, was stepping forward when Hill just ran past him with no contact at all. It was almost #5 just said, "Hey Tyreek. How ya doin?" as he ran by. What a terrible breakdown. The DEF started to go soft when we were up by 3 TD's and could never get any semblance of continuity back. You could just see what was happening and nothing was going to stop the collapse.
 
We all knew we wasn'y finishing 16-0. Queen slid to his do nothing self after a great 1st game. No push in the middle of the defense and miscommunications in the secondary killed us. That's not on the DC and we need to stop wit this "Where's Wink" shit.
 
Holy shit, I just realized I forgot to take my third blood pressure pill today. No wonder I melted down extra hard in our fourth quarter.
 
Holy shit, I just realized I forgot to take my third blood pressure pill today. No wonder I melted down extra hard in our fourth quarter.
Idk I'm sure giving up a 28 pt lead had something to do with it.
 
Okay, I've had time to simmer and gather my thoughts and I'm just going to spew them out.

1. If this is what Greg Roman has to offer offensively, then why is he here? I don't know how much of the passing game improving is Tee Martin and Keith Williams, how much is Greg Roman, and how much is Lamar Jackson just being an elite quarterback and it's hard to have a bad passing game with an elite quarterback, but what I do know is that the running game is supposed to be Greg Roman's forte and right now, they're awful. Take away Lamar's long run and the Ravens had 3.2 yards per carry. And most of that was really just Lamar breaking a few nice runs. I shutter to think what the running game looks like with someone like Joe Flacco in at quarterback.

It seems like the Ravens are getting away from the read option on running plays. Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one, and that may be due to Lamar wanting to run less and focus on being more of a passer. If that is the case, can the running game prop itself up on its own? Can the Ravens run a smash mouth football style when Lamar isn't accounting for a guaranteed 1,000 yard season and threatening defenses and drawing so much attention to himself? I don't know.

With all of that said, it's very frustrating with the run game (which is supposed to be Greg Roman's forte) because the Ravens only really sustained one long drive. Every other drive outside of the 10 minute drive was 3:01 or less. The Ravens are just absolutely failing to grind the clock and it ended up costing them big time. It's an absolute failure that the Ravens allowed four touchdown passes in the fourth quarter, but the Dolphins had four possessions in the fourth quarter largely because the Ravens could not sustain a drive.

And most infuriatingly, the absolute commitment to what wasn't working. The run game was ass with the running backs. The Ravens had the ball five times within the five yard line on one drive and four times at the 1. Why would you run all five times when you've seen it stuffed? And then not only that, but the Ravens kept doubling down on it in critical situations. Personally, I'd have done what the Patriots did in 2014 against the Ravens in the playoffs- literally just stop running with the running backs. Use the pass game as an extension of the running game if you want, but Lamar was absolutely cooking. I'd have rather placed the ball in the hands of the best player on your team instead of *checks notes* Mike Davis and Kenyan Drake... Yeah, they aren't it, chief.

I'm getting a little scrambled with my thoughts, but just to add this in- I have zero issue with going for it on fourth twice. However, I have extreme issues with the short yardage play calling. The dive didn't work the first five times. Why would it work the next five?

2. Just an absolute failure by the defense. I know a lot came down to injuries, but where was the pass rush? After the pass rush performance against the Jets, I'm actually in disbelief that the Ravens disappeared as much as they did. Miami did some work to revamp their offensive line, but it's not like they got the 2014 Cowboys offensive line out there. This offensive line, minus Terron Armstead, feels like it's pretty much a wash with the 2021 line and that line was considered the worst in the NFL and one of the worst lines in recent memory.

It's just infuriating because Tua is an atrocious quarterback on the move and when pressured. I hate PFF with a passion, but I don't know how else to really get this point across, but they graded Tua -40 points when pressured vs not pressured.

So, we have a terrible offensive line and a quarterback that's poor against pressure. The Ravens showed a really good pass rush, especially from the interior against the Jets, so naturally this works in their favor, right? I just don't get how the Ravens managed to manufacture zero pressure. The commentators pointed out that on three straight plays, Houston was unblocked and that honestly feels like the only pressure the Ravens got. I know they only finished with two quarterback hits.

I absolutely loathed Wink because he was unable to get pressure while being the most blitz happy coordinator in the NFL. He showed no creativity and zero ability to manufacture a pass rush. It's infuriating that the issue reared its ugly head again. However, I can't hold that too much against MacDonald because...

3. Eric DeCosta really fumbled the ball. The Ravens knew coming into the season that Ojabo is coming off of an achilles, Bowser is coming off of an achilles, Edwards is coming off of an achilles, and Dobbins is coming off of a blown up knee. Naturally, it would seem wise to have a contingency plan.

I know the Ravens were in on ZDS, but once that fell through, it really seemed like the Ravens got caught with their pants down. They had no contingency. So instead, the Ravens are now relying on two OLBs on the main roster and PS call ups, which is great for a premium position in the NFL. I really do hope that Bowser and Ojabo come back and have great seasons, but in the very real chance that the injuries cause them to have slow seasons, what then? What are the Ravens going to do?

I have the same thought process about the running backs, but so far, it appears they wouldn't make a ton of difference, anyway. The line is just not getting it done and the only real switch I could see is Stanley in for Mekari, but Stanley hasn't been known to be the most road grading of tackles. I mean, he's a good run blocker, but he's not going to be the missing link that all of a sudden turns the failures of the running game back to 2019.

I just view the failures of the offseason like how I did in 2020 when Yanda retired. Everyone and their mother, except apparently the Ravens, knew that losing Yanda was an absolutely massive blow and would require a very concerted effort to make sure the offensive line didn't fall apart because of how much the Ravens were losing with no Yanda. Well, the Ravens didn't have a contingency plan and rolled the dice on Phillips and it blew up in their faces. They of course remedied this in 2021 by getting Zeitler, who has been great, but why is it taking a full season to fix the known issues? In the case of the pass rush, more than one.

The sad thing- it's not going to get any easier because Lamar is not playing himself into a cheap contract at this rate. At this rate, he's going to cost even more and then roster construction gets even tighter. The Ravens have got to do better.

So, anyway, I view it as a top down failure at every level of the team. I think the team, outside of Lamar and a select few others, really blew this game. And that really sucks because this could very well be a "what if" game come playoff time.
Yeah I just can't possibly agree more. This is a single post that gets at all of the scattered points I've been trying to make. This team has an elite QB and a lot of young talent. It has just for multiple years totally ignored the pass rusher position which is frankly possibly the second most important position in football. Then in addition to ignoring pass rush, has not handled the injury situation from a roster construction point of view very well. Now I'll admit, that's probably a very difficult job given what happened last year.

But these things come together to give you a team that has an elite QB who can't hand the ball off. And an elite secondary that's pretty much useless because there's no pass rush.
 
Okay, I've had time to simmer and gather my thoughts and I'm just going to spew them out.

1. If this is what Greg Roman has to offer offensively, then why is he here? I don't know how much of the passing game improving is Tee Martin and Keith Williams, how much is Greg Roman, and how much is Lamar Jackson just being an elite quarterback and it's hard to have a bad passing game with an elite quarterback, but what I do know is that the running game is supposed to be Greg Roman's forte and right now, they're awful. Take away Lamar's long run and the Ravens had 3.2 yards per carry. And most of that was really just Lamar breaking a few nice runs. I shutter to think what the running game looks like with someone like Joe Flacco in at quarterback.

It seems like the Ravens are getting away from the read option on running plays. Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one, and that may be due to Lamar wanting to run less and focus on being more of a passer. If that is the case, can the running game prop itself up on its own? Can the Ravens run a smash mouth football style when Lamar isn't accounting for a guaranteed 1,000 yard season and threatening defenses and drawing so much attention to himself? I don't know.

With all of that said, it's very frustrating with the run game (which is supposed to be Greg Roman's forte) because the Ravens only really sustained one long drive. Every other drive outside of the 10 minute drive was 3:01 or less. The Ravens are just absolutely failing to grind the clock and it ended up costing them big time. It's an absolute failure that the Ravens allowed four touchdown passes in the fourth quarter, but the Dolphins had four possessions in the fourth quarter largely because the Ravens could not sustain a drive.

And most infuriatingly, the absolute commitment to what wasn't working. The run game was ass with the running backs. The Ravens had the ball five times within the five yard line on one drive and four times at the 1. Why would you run all five times when you've seen it stuffed? And then not only that, but the Ravens kept doubling down on it in critical situations. Personally, I'd have done what the Patriots did in 2014 against the Ravens in the playoffs- literally just stop running with the running backs. Use the pass game as an extension of the running game if you want, but Lamar was absolutely cooking. I'd have rather placed the ball in the hands of the best player on your team instead of *checks notes* Mike Davis and Kenyan Drake... Yeah, they aren't it, chief.

I'm getting a little scrambled with my thoughts, but just to add this in- I have zero issue with going for it on fourth twice. However, I have extreme issues with the short yardage play calling. The dive didn't work the first five times. Why would it work the next five?

2. Just an absolute failure by the defense. I know a lot came down to injuries, but where was the pass rush? After the pass rush performance against the Jets, I'm actually in disbelief that the Ravens disappeared as much as they did. Miami did some work to revamp their offensive line, but it's not like they got the 2014 Cowboys offensive line out there. This offensive line, minus Terron Armstead, feels like it's pretty much a wash with the 2021 line and that line was considered the worst in the NFL and one of the worst lines in recent memory.

It's just infuriating because Tua is an atrocious quarterback on the move and when pressured. I hate PFF with a passion, but I don't know how else to really get this point across, but they graded Tua -40 points when pressured vs not pressured.

So, we have a terrible offensive line and a quarterback that's poor against pressure. The Ravens showed a really good pass rush, especially from the interior against the Jets, so naturally this works in their favor, right? I just don't get how the Ravens managed to manufacture zero pressure. The commentators pointed out that on three straight plays, Houston was unblocked and that honestly feels like the only pressure the Ravens got. I know they only finished with two quarterback hits.

I absolutely loathed Wink because he was unable to get pressure while being the most blitz happy coordinator in the NFL. He showed no creativity and zero ability to manufacture a pass rush. It's infuriating that the issue reared its ugly head again. However, I can't hold that too much against MacDonald because...

3. Eric DeCosta really fumbled the ball. The Ravens knew coming into the season that Ojabo is coming off of an achilles, Bowser is coming off of an achilles, Edwards is coming off of an achilles, and Dobbins is coming off of a blown up knee. Naturally, it would seem wise to have a contingency plan.

I know the Ravens were in on ZDS, but once that fell through, it really seemed like the Ravens got caught with their pants down. They had no contingency. So instead, the Ravens are now relying on two OLBs on the main roster and PS call ups, which is great for a premium position in the NFL. I really do hope that Bowser and Ojabo come back and have great seasons, but in the very real chance that the injuries cause them to have slow seasons, what then? What are the Ravens going to do?

I have the same thought process about the running backs, but so far, it appears they wouldn't make a ton of difference, anyway. The line is just not getting it done and the only real switch I could see is Stanley in for Mekari, but Stanley hasn't been known to be the most road grading of tackles. I mean, he's a good run blocker, but he's not going to be the missing link that all of a sudden turns the failures of the running game back to 2019.

I just view the failures of the offseason like how I did in 2020 when Yanda retired. Everyone and their mother, except apparently the Ravens, knew that losing Yanda was an absolutely massive blow and would require a very concerted effort to make sure the offensive line didn't fall apart because of how much the Ravens were losing with no Yanda. Well, the Ravens didn't have a contingency plan and rolled the dice on Phillips and it blew up in their faces. They of course remedied this in 2021 by getting Zeitler, who has been great, but why is it taking a full season to fix the known issues? In the case of the pass rush, more than one.

The sad thing- it's not going to get any easier because Lamar is not playing himself into a cheap contract at this rate. At this rate, he's going to cost even more and then roster construction gets even tighter. The Ravens have got to do better.

So, anyway, I view it as a top down failure at every level of the team. I think the team, outside of Lamar and a select few others, really blew this game. And that really sucks because this could very well be a "what if" game come playoff time.

mostly agreed albeit im just not sure what other options there were outside of drafting someone other than kyle hamilton at 14
but i cant agree on the greg roman stuff - he's coordinating a dynamic and explosive passing attack... feels like a very lamar-esque moving of goalposts to minimise that part of his job just because the running game isnt working well - i get that he's the running game savant and that's what he's known for but people have gone way too hard on the roman's basically just the run game coordinator stuff - even with tyrod taylor, roman designed an explosive, efficient downfield passing attack - that has always been his philosophy

i feel like this forum is turning me into a greg roman disciple just because i feel like people are way to in their feelings about him

i think what you can be critical of today was some of the situational playcalling like you mentioned with the over-commitment to an inefficient running game - and it's put into even sharper relief by the one time we bootlegged and had 2 guys wide open in the endzone for a TD
 
Can we finally admit teams overhype analytics as a way to not do the obvious play call? We have Tucker, stop going for it on 4th and take the easy 3.
I'm not sure going for it was the wrong call. I think going for it and continuing to think we had any push in the run game was the bigger issue. Tried the same thing over and over in those situations with the same result - failure.
 
Can we finally admit teams overhype analytics as a way to not do the obvious play call? We have Tucker, stop going for it on 4th and take the easy 3.
How many points did we leave on the field today? Analytics are a great tool but the problem is they are based on history. Not what is happening in front of you at any given moment.
 
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