Pass rushers

[rossihunter2]

Best bend size combo I ever saw coming out was Robbie Quinn. At 6’4 265 and far stronger than Barnett. I wouldn’t call Barnett strong. More great leverage than strong. Barnett is gonna be a very good player but not great. He is always gonna struggle with the better tackles. Actually he is always gonna get swallowed up by better tackles around the league.

i dont know what you're talking about - barnett has already demonstrated that he's a matchup nightmare for the "better tackles" - he makes big plays in big moments in big games against big players... as a rookie...

 

[Sledge Hammer]

He’s a way better edge rusher than Chubb there’s no question about that. People are in group think on Chubb. There’s literally nothing he does well as a pass rusher that’s going to translate to the next level. He’s going to be a very good run defender. He doesn’t have the bend his 3 cone showed that. Name the last edge rusher that has been successful that has ran a 7.2+ (Chubb ran a 7.37 3 cone). Landry is hands down the number 1 edge in this class and it isn’t even close.

If I remember correctly Strahans 3 cone was pretty subpar. I believe his combine was subpar which dropped him outa round1. Great production at a small school but the testing numbers didn’t bode well for translating. While I would prefer an edge rusher drafted by the ravens have a good 3cone. There’s been good shifty running backs and receivers over 7.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

i dont know what you're talking about - barnett has already demonstrated that he's a matchup nightmare for the "better tackles" - he makes big plays in big moments in big games against big players... as a rookie...

See Trent Williams. He made a play in the Super Bowl against who. What player did he beat. His technique is harder to deal with. But the more a tackle plays him the better he contains him. He is gonna get his double digits. But never gonna beat Tyron Smith, Trent Williams and Taylor Lewans of the league

 

[rossihunter2]

See Trent Williams. He made a play in the Super Bowl against who. What player did he beat. His technique is harder to deal with. But the more a tackle plays him the better he contains him. He is gonna get his double digits. But never gonna beat Tyron Smith, Trent Williams and Taylor Lewans of the league

i mean trent williams couldnt handle him in week 7... they had to give him extra help vs barnett with double teams etc. barnett still had him on skates a few times in the passing game and destroyed him a few times in the running game too...

 

[Sledge Hammer]

i mean trent williams couldnt handle him in week 7... they had to give him extra help vs barnett with double teams etc. barnett still had him on skates a few times in the passing game and destroyed him a few times in the running game too...

I don’t know what it was you were watching dude. But seriously even philly fans know and acknowledge Trent totally dominated him. And said he is a rookie and will get better. He didn’t have him on no skates. Derek isn’t a big dude. He is 265 and kinda fleshy. Which if he cleaned that up would end up at 250. And Williams played a bad year for his standards. Probably slowing down near that 30 yr mark

 

[RavensMania]

I don’t know what it was you were watching dude. But seriously even philly fans know and acknowledge Trent totally dominated him. And said he is a rookie and will get better. He didn’t have him on no skates. Derek isn’t a big dude. He is 265 and kinda fleshy. Which if he cleaned that up would end up at 250

Is dude your favorite word, or is that Bud. Just a question

I mean you do use that quite often when referring to people.

 

[rossihunter2]

I don’t know what it was you were watching dude. But seriously even philly fans know and acknowledge Trent totally dominated him. And said he is a rookie and will get better. He didn’t have him on no skates. Derek isn’t a big dude. He is 265 and kinda fleshy. Which if he cleaned that up would end up at 250. And Williams played a bad year for his standards. Probably slowing down near that 30 yr mark

dude you're thinking about barnett's first game in week 1 - by week 7 barnett was starting to progress - he had 2 sacks in that game (one of them was vs jordan reed tbf) but he destroyed williams a few time in the running game and also had multiple qb pressures/hits too vs williams...

 

[Justdewinit20]

Mkay. So:

Chubb can win with his getoff, his speed to power conversion, his hand usage, his bullrush, his insane understanding of leverage, the variety in his moves, his elite inside counters, his motor.

Landry can win with his getoff and bend. And that's only the case if the OT doesn't touch him.

Trust the metrics all you want, maybe that'll work out better for you than it did for Sashi Brown.

How often do edge rushers beat tackles inside in the NFL? That’s the one thing that they don’t allow. It’s engraved in them not to get beat on the inside as it’s the fastest route to the qb. His leverage is just bad, he can beat guys off the snap in college but that isn’t going to happen in the NFL

Is dude your favorite word, or is that Bud. Just a question

I mean you do use that quite often when referring to people.

im guessing he’s from California.

 

[rossihunter2]

How often do edge rushers beat tackles inside in the NFL? That’s the one thing that they don’t allow. It’s engraved in them not to get beat on the inside as it’s the fastest route to the qb. His leverage is just bad, he can beat guys off the snap in college but that isn’t going to happen in the NFL

im guessing he’s from California.

Edge rushers would be easy to deal with if they never won inside - have you never seen a stunt/twist/late blitz from a 3-4 olb - what about the spin move or the swim move or breaking off your outside rush and ripping to the inside to get to the qb - these are common and useful tools that edge rushers use to win

If you offer no threat to the inside then you are likely gonna get blocked out of the play more often than not because the tackle can just shepherd you beyond the 6 step drop

It also makes it easier to run a draw play because the offence knows there’s a huge hole every time

 

[Jacquouille]

How often do edge rushers beat tackles inside in the NFL? That’s the one thing that they don’t allow. It’s engraved in them not to get beat on the inside as it’s the fastest route to the qb. His leverage is just bad, he can beat guys off the snap in college but that isn’t going to happen in the NFL

im guessing he’s from California.

Very often. See Clowney Jadeveon.

 

[Justdewinit20]

Very often. See Clowney Jadeveon.

Clowney plays more interior DE than OLB and he has not been anywhere near the pass rusher people pegged him to be maybe it has to do something with his poor 3 cone.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Clowney plays more interior DE than OLB and he has not been anywhere near the pass rusher people pegged him to be maybe it has to do something with his poor 3 cone.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Clowney isn't the world beater people pegged him to be intially but he's still a stud pass rusher. Dude was a first team all pro for a reason..

Also yes, a single poor combine test = future bust guarenteed

 

[Justdewinit20]

Edge rushers would be easy to deal with if they never won inside - have you never seen a stunt/twist/late blitz from a 3-4 olb - what about the spin move or the swim move or breaking off your outside rush and ripping to the inside to get to the qb - these are common and useful tools that edge rushers use to win

If you offer no threat to the inside then you are likely gonna get blocked out of the play more often than not because the tackle can just shepherd you beyond the 6 step drop

It also makes it easier to run a draw play because the offence knows there’s a huge hole every time

When OLB/DE stunt they are facing guards or centers not tackles. Very rarely do you see tackles in the NFL get beat straight up on an inside move. Spin to the inside move they get the tackle thinking that they are going outside but spin inside again. My point is tackles don’t get beat inside straight up and that’s Chubbs skill set in college. And no edge rushers would not be easy to deal with if they just won outside, if the tackle doesn’t have the athleticism to keep up with the bend and leverage they have the edge rushers are going to win over and over again.

 

[rossihunter2]

Clowney plays more interior DE than OLB and he has not been anywhere near the pass rusher people pegged him to be maybe it has to do something with his poor 3 cone.

ummm - he is a stud outside pass rusher - he's the most disruptive defender in the league in 2017 vs both the run and the pass... what film were you watching?

 

[rossihunter2]

When OLB/DE stunt they are facing guards or centers not tackles. Very rarely do you see tackles in the NFL get beat straight up on an inside move. Spin to the inside move they get the tackle thinking that they are going outside but spin inside again. My point is tackles don’t get beat inside straight up and that’s Chubbs skill set in college.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said... is wrong

when the stunt happens the edge guy might be going against all number of people in all number of situations - sometimes the tight end is outside dealing with the outside rush - and sometimes the twist is into that gap - or sometimes it puts the defensive tackle in that gap... or sometimes the edge rusher just blitzes late into that gap

inside moves happen all the time in the nfl - the spin move is an inside move so i dont get what you're trying to say, the swim move can be an inside move, the bull rush can cause an inside move, a lot of handfighting might create the possibility of an inside move possibly with a rip

and further to this i dont know what film you've been watching of chubb but ive seen him bend that edge hard all over his tape

 

[Justdewinit20]

Stats don't tell the whole story. Clowney isn't the world beater people pegged him to be intially but he's still a stud pass rusher. Dude was a first team all pro for a reason..

Also yes, a single poor combine test = future bust guarenteed

He’s not at all a good pass rusher on the edge. he’s been a way better run stuffer than a pass rusher. His pass rush comes to play when he’s lined up inside not at OLB. Idk what stats you’re talking about look at the pressure he’s put up it’s been nowhere near Khalil Mack who had a 3 cone under 7 seconds and likes up at OLB

 

[Justdewinit20]

Amazing. Every word of what you just said... is wrong

when the stunt happens the edge guy might be going against all number of people in all number of situations - sometimes the tight end is outside dealing with the outside rush - and sometimes the twist is into that gap - or sometimes it puts the defensive tackle in that gap... or sometimes the edge rusher just blitzes late into that gap

inside moves happen all the time in the nfl - the spin move is an inside move so i dont get what you're trying to say, the swim move can be an inside move, the bull rush can cause an inside move, a lot of handfighting might create the possibility of an inside move possibly with a rip

and further to this i dont know what film you've been watching of chubb but ive seen him bend that edge hard all over his tape

I’m saying you’re not going to win inside nowhere near as often as you are outside, how often do you see NFL starting tackles get bullrushed? Hand fighting almost always leads to pressure around the tackle not inside see Joey Bosa a master hand fighter(also had a three cone under 7 seconds)
Lol you’re saying Chubb has a spin move? Really I haven’t seen that anywhere. Chubb has no bend and he doesn’t get underneath the tackle. He does have a get off where the tackle isn’t fast enough off the snap(this isn’t going to happen much in the NFL) there’s a huge correlation between 3 cone and being a great pass rusher in the NFL there’s no way around it. Find me some edge rushers that have had 7.2+ three cones that have been great and worthy of their top 10 draft selection.

 

[rossihunter2]

He’s not at all a good pass rusher on the edge. he’s been a way better run stuffer than a pass rusher. His pass rush comes to play when he’s lined up inside not at OLB. Idk what stats you’re talking about look at the pressure he’s put up it’s been nowhere near Khalil Mack who had a 3 cone under 7 seconds and likes up at OLB

um khalil mack just had a down season and jadeveon clowney finished the season with a top pass rushing grade from PFF, and also just happened to finish the season in the top 10 in sacks... and i think he created statistically the most negative plays in the NFL for opposing offences - i.e. sacks + TFLs

you're wrong about the inside vs OLB thing - a lot of the time he was lined up inside vs the run to allow him to hunt the ball carrier (which the announcers specifically highlighted in the game vs the ravens)

 

[rossihunter2]

I’m saying you’re not going to win inside nowhere near as often as you are outside, how often do you see NFL starting tackles get bullrushed? Hand fighting almost always leads to pressure around the tackle not inside see Joey Bosa a master hand fighter(also had a three cone under 7 seconds)
Lol you’re saying Chubb has a spin move? Really I haven’t seen that anywhere. Chubb has no bend and he doesn’t get underneath the tackle. He does have a get off where the tackle isn’t fast enough off the snap(this isn’t going to happen much in the NFL) there’s a huge correlation between 3 cone and being a great pass rusher in the NFL there’s no way around it. Find me some edge rushers that have had 7.2+ three cones that have been great and worthy of their top 10 draft selection.

you see starting nfl tackles get bullrushed all the time - just because a pressure doesnt turn into a sack doesnt mean it isnt a negative event for an offence... and you see plenty of power moves break open the pocket to then move to a second move
hand fighting can lead to pressure both inside or outside - the edge rusher's job is to threaten both sides
and im not saying chubb has a spin move but that its another common inside rush move - dwight freeney has essentially built a hall of fame career based off that move

and in terms of chubb - i dont know what you're watching but ive seen him bend that edge hard and often - he doesnt bend like derek barnett but ive never seen anyone bend the edge like derek barnett on college film before - he has shown better bend than myles garrett did last year for example...

there is a correlation between 3 cone and successful rushers in the sense that most (not all) successful rushers go sub-7.2 but its by all means not a rule - you find unsuccessful rushers who go under and successful rushers who go over (or dont even bother running it because they know its gonna go badly - see terrell suggs for example)

the combine will never outdo what the tape shows - when there's disconnect you go back to the tape - especially when the rest of his combine was so impressive

 

[Justdewinit20]

um khalil mack just had a down season and jadeveon clowney finished the season with a top pass rushing grade from PFF, and also just happened to finish the season in the top 10 in sacks... and i think he created statistically the most negative plays in the NFL for opposing offences - i.e. sacks + TFLs

you're wrong about the inside vs OLB thing - a lot of the time he was lined up inside vs the run to allow him to hunt the ball carrier (which the announcers specifically highlighted in the game vs the ravens)

Clowney finished 18th in pass rush grade from PFF and they include pressure from every position he lined up at I’m guessing the majority of his pressure came when he was lined up inside. Mack a down year? He still finished in the top 10 pass rush grade from PFF. Not saying i agree with these grades but if you want to mention them at least be accurate