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2021 Edge Thread

rossihunter2 said:
@JoeyFlex5 - just did Cam Sample - looks like a decent day 3 candidate to me - not overly athletic (albeit not particularly limited athletically either) - but he's powerful - those hands are really violent and can shock which is nice - plays with good leverage which makes his bull rush pretty effective and in 2020 he was pretty good working off of that bull to a secondary move or countering - looked good as a run defender

pretty stiff and unremarkable athlete though which makes it unlikely he'll ever be particularly dangerous as an edge rusher - but he has a dynamism about his game especially with his hands that looks like he could be very effective rushing on the interior

and i like how he takes any snap he loses personally - high effort, will absolutely outwork the guy across from him - plays with aggression

someone i'd be very content with taking in that mid-4th onwards range
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I’ve been wanting him to be a priority on day 3, I don’t see him as an edge for us but just a moving DL. I could see him doing a lot of edge setting and rushing from 3/1/0 based on the design of the rush or matchups we might like

tbh though, I’m not sure he’ll be there on day 3, I wouldnt draft him in the third but I wouldn’t be shocked if he goes in the third
 
Edgar said:
@RaineV1
Well, Thanks a lot for turning me on to Zaven Collins! He is unbelievable. If by some chance he was there or we were to move/have another first round pick....man you talk about a tremendous LB corp/defense.
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I find myself always wanting Collins when I’m doing mock generators as if I had extra picks from a trade.

he and queen and bowser would eliminate a lot of concern with pass rush because that would be a lethal zone blitz package or just exotic blitz package, which in turn would take pressure off of our safeties in coverage.

I wouldn’t hate at all to see us address the pass rush with a DT(barmore or nixon) and a LB with pass rush skill like Collins, or even ojulari who is an excellent coverage LB as well as a potentially special pass rusher. We’re a positionless style of defense, and it works when we have guys who actually have the explosiveness to get in the backfield.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I’ve been wanting him to be a priority on day 3, I don’t see him as an edge for us but just a moving DL. I could see him doing a lot of edge setting and rushing from 3/1/0 based on the design of the rush or matchups we might like

tbh though, I’m not sure he’ll be there on day 3, I wouldnt draft him in the third but I wouldn’t be shocked if he goes in the third
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i would be pretty shocked if he went before day 3 - he doesnt really fit the parameters of a guy who would go on day 2 - not a ton of production, not any elite athletic traits, not from a big program, not a true edge

also not sure he stands out from the crowd of guys who all have a better shot at going on day 2 (who i think a lot of probably slip into day 3 too)

i do see him as an edge - in the sense that i dont think he'll be able to survive inside on running downs - but i'd fully expect him to be used mostly inside as a pass rusher - i think what you said at the end there is exactly how he'll be used... edge setter who moves inside on obvious passing downs who's not going to drop into coverage a lot but might do occasionally and may well be used a ton stunting inside as an edge for a looping defensive tackle with athleticism (like madubuike or campbell) going outside

i think there's a fair few guys in this class who project (on the ravens) as edge setters with interior rush potential - the types of guys who may make jaylon ferguson completely redundant if he doesn't take a big year 3 leap

a guy i'd absolutely love who may fall into day 3 because he just tore his achilles (and therefore might not be available to start the season) but who has true versatility and is a major threat both outside and inside is Dayo Odeyingbo - needs to refine his hand fighting but he's 6'6 276lbs and has the ability to win outside and has great lateral quickness and strength and was a threat wherever he lined up

i just think there's lots of guys in this draft who offer some similar things to Sample... Janarius Robinson, Patrick Johnson, Chauncey Golston
all guys who look like they'll be good maybe even great edge setters who have some upside as pass rushers with their ability to be powerful and use their hands - i like sample but he got the same grade as Robinson and Johnson from me - golston graded out a fair bit lower - sample's the one who's shown me the most inside but Robinson is the one who i think has probably the highest upside and Johnson has some nice hand usage and the ability to drop into coverage and play more consistently as a stand-up edge guy

that's why i dont see a way that Sample goes day 2 - right now there's 19 edges i have graded over him (and 3 graded at his level too) - to me it would take a miracle for him to go before the 4th round - but i could definitely see a scenario where he goes early in the 4th (especially to maybe the panthers who got to coach him at the senior bowl where he stood out)
 
Elerson smith is worth a good look, he’s long, lanky, has a teleport first step, and bends very well, actively used hands and forearms to shield frame from tackles hands. Can’t find much on him since he’s a small school guy but he’s got some snaps that really jump off the tape
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Elerson smith is worth a good look, he’s long, lanky, has a teleport first step, and bends very well, actively used hands and forearms to shield frame from tackles hands. Can’t find much on him since he’s a small school guy but he’s got some snaps that really jump off the tape
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oh yeah - i really like him a lot - turned up at the senior bowl at 262lbs and looked just as good moving around as on the limited tape i could find - he was probably the best DL in 1v1s all week - think he maybe lost 1 rep throughout all the practices

it's really hard to find tape on him as you say but what tape there is looks really great (as you'd hope it would for a small school guy)

but on what tape i could find he looks like he's a long, springy athlete with the burst to win outside and the hands to win at the point of attack - really proficient using his hands through the rush to stay clean

but i really like him
 
rossihunter2 said:
oh yeah - i really like him a lot - turned up at the senior bowl at 262lbs and looked just as good moving around as on the limited tape i could find - he was probably the best DL in 1v1s all week - think he maybe lost 1 rep throughout all the practices

it's really hard to find tape on him as you say but what tape there is looks really great (as you'd hope it would for a small school guy)

but on what tape i could find he looks like he's a long, springy athlete with the burst to win outside and the hands to win at the point of attack - really proficient using his hands through the rush to stay clean

but i really like him
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Springy, that’s a good word lol, like he’s not super fast, but that first step is almost disproportionate to the rest of his movements, and he’s got some nice flexible bend ability as well, great lean and pad level and balance to flatten the edge without losing momentum.
 
Jaelan Phillips is pretty clearly the top edge prospect on film right? Is he supposed to be okay to play? I know he’s got concussion concerns but goddamn, the way our defense is built right now I just wanna see us squeeze 4 seasons out of a player like that and then he can retire healthy, not much different from drafting a player who leaves after their rookie deal ends.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Jaelan Phillips is pretty clearly the top edge prospect on film right? Is he supposed to be okay to play? I know he’s got concussion concerns but goddamn, the way our defense is built right now I just wanna see us squeeze 4 seasons out of a player like that and then he can retire healthy, not much different from drafting a player who leaves after their rookie deal ends.
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i mean yes he's clearly the best on tape lol - i just have no idea how teams will view those concussions - he was medically retired at one point... just hard to know, especially without a combine whether a team can or will risk it
 
rossihunter2 said:
i mean yes he's clearly the best on tape lol - i just have no idea how teams will view those concussions - he was medically retired at one point... just hard to know, especially without a combine whether a team can or will risk it
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unless there’s a teven Jenkins, Vera tucker, or rashod Bateman on the board at 27, then I’m 100% taking that risk, without question. I watch ojulari who I think has stellar tape and I say I’d like him at 27, then I turn on the Phillips tape and I’m like holy shit this guy is different, no edge defender has jumped off the tape for me this much since Myles Garrett, and ultimately that’s who he reminds me of, just an absolute freak of an athlete who has the natural tools to come in the nfl and make grown men look like little boys in comparison, and he knows how to play edge, his tape looks flawless honestly.

too bad it’s a moot point, someone’s gonna take him high.
 
I think we should all know already which edge rusher the ravens the ravens are hoping for...

It’s Carlos basham. Not that I want him, but if I’ve ever seen a wink martindale featured pass rusher ala zadarius smith, it’s Carlos basham. His sacks come from physically overpowering guys at the line of scrimmage, twisting and stunting inside, and hustle and heads up style of play.

I think he’s got a lot of issues with stiffness and lack of explosion in general, not very fleet of foot either, and his hands are active and quick and violent but the hand work is often aimless.

he just strikes me as a guy Eric would see as a solution to both edge and in DL rotation in general, he’s either a base 43 end or a positionless hybrid front kinda guy where he moves all around from the 9 to the 0 and is dialed up to get home on big blitz packages
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I think we should all know already which edge rusher the ravens the ravens are hoping for...

It’s Carlos basham. Not that I want him, but if I’ve ever seen a wink martindale featured pass rusher ala zadarius smith, it’s Carlos basham. His sacks come from physically overpowering guys at the line of scrimmage, twisting and stunting inside, and hustle and heads up style of play.

I think he’s got a lot of issues with stiffness and lack of explosion in general, not very fleet of foot either, and his hands are active and quick and violent but the hand work is often aimless.

he just strikes me as a guy Eric would see as a solution to both edge and in DL rotation in general, he’s either a base 43 end or a positionless hybrid front kinda guy where he moves all around from the 9 to the 0 and is dialed up to get home on big blitz packages
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that makes a lot of sense - he's a guy who's probably close to maxed out athletically but is so strong and powerful at the point of attack - and while he's stiff he does have some lateral explosion - and some burst - think he put on some weight in 2020 and it looked like he was a little slower... maybe pre-empting a move inside but I think if he gets down to 270/275 he's going to be fine (he was already looking faster at the senior bowl at 281 so maybe he just needed to train better...) - looked really good at the senior bowl especially rushing from inside - he's just really violent and brutally powerful and plays with relentless energy and effort (which gets him rewarded) - he absolutely lays into the QB too and forces fumbles

for what it's worth i dont think he's aimless with his hands - i see a guy who's both violent and technical with his hand work - he's not super sudden but i do see some explosive qualities and a pretty good get-off (especially inside)

he's one of the more developed guys with his ability to counter and compound moves together - really good reactive pass rusher in that sense - has a knack for penetrating and shooting gaps (saw a stat that had him for a TFL in something like 23 straight games) - he's so good getting into the B-gap from any alignment - really dangerous swim move

but ZDS is a great comp for him profile-wise - they're very similar prospects coming out in the sense that they both look maxed out athletically, a bit stiff, but are strong at the point of attack and play with violence and fury

we don't have the athletic testing data for basham yet (wake forest pro day march 31st) but their physical profiles aren't dissimilar either - ZDS is 2 inches taller but their arm lengths are the same and basham weighed in at the senior bowl only 7lbs than ZDS was at the combine
 
Jaelen Phillips just absolutely smashed his proday out of the park
comparatively Rousseau looking sluggish and non-dynamic

i really wonder if rousseau starts to fall down media boards as we get closer and closer to april - he's all wingspan and length and 1 high production year... that's like his entire prospect profile
 
rossihunter2 said:
Jaelen Phillips just absolutely smashed his proday out of the park
comparatively Rousseau looking sluggish and non-dynamic

i really wonder if rousseau starts to fall down media boards as we get closer and closer to april - he's all wingspan and length and 1 high production year... that's like his entire prospect profile
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Rousseau has spent his whole year off talking about how great of shape he’s in, he’s just been working out and training and what not, so this is not a good look lol

but comparatively we never thought for a second that Rousseau would test anywhere close to Phillips
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Rousseau has spent his whole year off talking about how great of shape he’s in, he’s just been working out and training and what not, so this is not a good look lol

but comparatively we never thought for a second that Rousseau would test anywhere close to Phillips
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no but it's not really about comparison - there's a reason i didnt mention roche who tested somewhere in the middle because he hit the sort of benchmarks his tape suggested he'd hit...

with rousseau it's worrying because you kind of do see that lack of explosion on tape and the hope was that he'd be able to not lose anything by filling out - he looked in good shape (apparently) at the senior bowl but i wonder if that extra weight has reduced his athleticism (which is not ideal)

im just not sure with those sorts of testing numbers what position he plays - the film and those sorts of testing numbers would suggest that he's not going to consistently be successful rushing on the edge outside - but his frame and weight don't look like they'll be able to get big enough to survive early downs inside

and that more describes the type of guy you might look at on day 3, not day 1...
 
rossihunter2 said:
no but it's not really about comparison - there's a reason i didnt mention roche who tested somewhere in the middle because he hit the sort of benchmarks his tape suggested he'd hit...

with rousseau it's worrying because you kind of do see that lack of explosion on tape and the hope was that he'd be able to not lose anything by filling out - he looked in good shape (apparently) at the senior bowl but i wonder if that extra weight has reduced his athleticism (which is not ideal)

im just not sure with those sorts of testing numbers what position he plays - the film and those sorts of testing numbers would suggest that he's not going to consistently be successful rushing on the edge outside - but his frame and weight don't look like they'll be able to get big enough to survive early downs inside

and that more describes the type of guy you might look at on day 3, not day 1...
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Man I tell you what... I’d have a hard time passing on Rousseau at really any point in day 2 lol barring a trade to the 2nd round. He is still very intriguing to me because he looked fairly natural at using his length and he plays with pretty great functional strength considering how light and lanky he is, I think he could be a pretty solid rotational guy if he really can pack on and play at 265
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Man I tell you what... I’d have a hard time passing on Rousseau at really any point in day 2 lol barring a trade to the 2nd round. He is still very intriguing to me because he looked fairly natural at using his length and he plays with pretty great functional strength considering how light and lanky he is, I think he could be a pretty solid rotational guy if he really can pack on and play at 265
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i guess my question is though... would you take him ahead of payton turner? because i definitely wouldn't... and i think the earliest i'd be comfortable taking turner is maybe towards the end of the 2nd round

what about jordan smith? he's just as tall and long but seems to have better quickness and flexibility outside...

what about dayo odeyingbo? he's also tall and long and i think he has more quickness and raw power than rousseau too - and he really does project well inside on passing downs because he did all that athletic stuff while playing at 280ish lbs...

i guess my point is - what does rousseau really offer that there aren't other guys who're better in this class

for me right now, this is the list of all the guys i like more than rousseau:
Jaelan Phillips
Kwity Paye
Azeez Ojulari
Ronnie Perkins
Carlos Basham
Hamilcar Rashed Jr
Jayson Oweh
Quincy Roche
Payton Turner
Joseph Ossai
Jordan Smith
Patrick Jones II
Dayo Odeyingbo
Joe Tryon

by my count that would make rousseau EDGE 15 on my board...

i've got no issue with him as a late day 2, early day 3 pick - but the first 2 rounds is way too rich for my blood
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Quick ranking with no detail or explanation really lol
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well i like it lol - all 7 of those guys also feature in my top 10 EDGEs although if those guys are in order that's the highest i've seen turner

throw in basham, oweh (projection) and roche and you round out my top 10
 
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