Fire Marty

[rossihunter2]

It's not that they were allowed to leave, if they are offered a job at a higher level you can't block that move and you shouldn't be allowed to either. It works both ways.

my point is so often other clubs use those offers of higher level jobs as a sign that they should remove their coaches/head coaches higher up in order to keep the important guys - they get rid of the incumbent coordinators/head coaches and offer those guys the higher level job in house to keep the guys

so that's what i meant in that they were allowed to leave - we could have jettisoned cam cameron to keep hue jackson but we didnt
we could have jettisoned pees to keep spagnolo or austin or frazier for example...

 

[Militant X 1]

Every time I hear Marty speak or attempt to explain things at his pressers he reminds me of Porky Pig....

 

[RavensMania]

my point is so often other clubs use those offers of higher level jobs as a sign that they should remove their coaches/head coaches higher up in order to keep the important guys - they get rid of the incumbent coordinators/head coaches and offer those guys the higher level job in house to keep the guys

so that's what i meant in that they were allowed to leave - we could have jettisoned cam cameron to keep hue jackson but we didnt
we could have jettisoned pees to keep spagnolo or austin or frazier for example...

And how often does that happen when you have a DC that is typically in the top half of the league and many times in the top 10. Teams don’t just fire the dc to replace them with the assistant dc that often. It’s happened but isn’t necessarily the right thing to do.

 

[rossihunter2]

And how often does that happen when you have a DC that is typically in the top half of the league and many times in the top 10. Teams don’t just fire the dc to replace them with the assistant dc that often. It’s happened but isn’t necessarily the right thing to do.

They do it from coordinator to head coach though - look at dirk koetter or Ben mcadoo for example

 

[RavensMania]

We are talking about firing Marry, but it’s possible that both Marty and Pees are fired in the offseason. Pees isn’t utilizing his guys to the best of their ability. He’s way too passive and one player he isn’t utilizing to the best of his ability is SS Tony Jefferson, who is an extremely talented player. Pees has some Uber talented players on defense, let’s get someone in here that can use the players to their strengths.

 

[rossihunter2]

We are talking about firing Marry, but it’s possible that both Marty and Pees are fired in the offseason. Pees isn’t utilizing his guys to the best of their ability. He’s way too passive and one player he isn’t utilizing to the best of his ability is SS Tony Jefferson, who is an extremely talented player. Pees has some Uber talented players on defense, let’s get someone in here that can use the players to their strengths.

unfortunately im not sure i see harbs firing pees - im afraid i think the only way pees is booted is if harbs is too

 

[Jacquouille]

We are talking about firing Marry, but it’s possible that both Marty and Pees are fired in the offseason. Pees isn’t utilizing his guys to the best of their ability. He’s way too passive and one player he isn’t utilizing to the best of his ability is SS Tony Jefferson, who is an extremely talented player. Pees has some Uber talented players on defense, let’s get someone in here that can use the players to their strengths.

I agree with you. Pees himself admitted this offseason that he had all the talent he needed. He has no excuses left, if his defense isn't dominant (and I mean dominant, period) we should pursue another talented DC. Maybe switch to a 4-3 defense (could help some players like Bowser, Judon and maybe Mosley imo). And as you said use Jefferson better, it's no secret that he's a box safety through and through. I think Pees is playing soft with this defense, which is not necessarily a problem but in this case is holding back the potential.

 

[rossihunter2]

I agree with you. Pees himself admitted this offseason that he had all the talent he needed. He has no excuses left, if his defense isn't dominant (and I mean dominant, period) we should pursue another talented DC. Maybe switch to a 4-3 defense (could help some players like Bowser, Judon and maybe Mosley imo). And as you said use Jefferson better, it's no secret that he's a box safety through and through. I think Pees is playing soft with this defense, which is not necessarily a problem but in this case is holding back the potential.

that's kind of my problem too - we've now got 3 good press corners on the outside, some young pass rushers, a thumper at safety and one of the best linebackers and nose tackles in the league - with those qualities we have to have an aggressive mindset on defence because that's the strength of our defence - zone is fine but playing a soft zone over and over again is just turning us into a hyper-passive defence - we look our best when we are aggressive schematically, im happy to leave CJ in coverage in the zone but we cant allow the offence time to isolate him in man coverage - i really would like us to maybe try a version of the houston 5 man rush front from last year where you get a hat on a hat and isolate a guy like ZDS or Judon over the centre and have suggs coming off the edge, maybe have tim williams stunt from the other side with willie henry next to him attacking the guard and then depending on the down you either have brandon williams/michael pierce/wormley or you have bowser as well because he can drop from the line of scrimmage into coverage effectively but also is a threat to rush - im assuming we're in nickel/dime but if not it's even easier to set up...

CJ Onwuasor/Levine
Suggs Bowser/Wormley/Pierce/Bwill ZDS/Judon Henry Williams
​

you can have suggs, bowser or judon drop into coverage from the line and you can have any of the linebackers blitz - and if you rush all 5 you've got a hat on every single offensive lineman - they cant double team anyone without using a rb or a tight end and tbh probably both

 

[Jacquouille]

that's kind of my problem too - we've now got 3 good press corners on the outside, some young pass rushers, a thumper at safety and one of the best linebackers and nose tackles in the league - with those qualities we have to have an aggressive mindset on defence because that's the strength of our defence - zone is fine but playing a soft zone over and over again is just turning us into a hyper-passive defence - we look our best when we are aggressive schematically, im happy to leave CJ in coverage in the zone but we cant allow the offence time to isolate him in man coverage - i really would like us to maybe try a version of the houston 5 man rush front from last year where you get a hat on a hat and isolate a guy like ZDS or Judon over the centre and have suggs coming off the edge, maybe have tim williams stunt from the other side with willie henry next to him attacking the guard and then depending on the down you either have brandon williams/michael pierce/wormley or you have bowser as well because he can drop from the line of scrimmage into coverage effectively but also is a threat to rush - im assuming we're in nickel/dime but if not it's even easier to set up...

CJ Onwuasor/Levine
Suggs Bowser/Wormley/Pierce/Bwill ZDS/Judon Henry Williams
​

you can have suggs, bowser or judon drop into coverage from the line and you can have any of the linebackers blitz - and if you rush all 5 you've got a hat on every single offensive lineman - they cant double team anyone without using a rb or a tight end and tbh probably both

I dig that and I think we've add the most success when we've had Levine in a blitz to boost the pass rush. One thing I'm not high on is putting Bowser and Judon inside. I think they can work on stunts but otherwise they won't amount to anything if we put them in front of Guards. I don't think it's necessary to put all of our OLB on the field at the same time, we have some pretty good interior rushers so let's just use them.

 

[The Greek]

We are talking about firing Marry, but it’s possible that both Marty and Pees are fired in the offseason. Pees isn’t utilizing his guys to the best of their ability. He’s way too passive and one player he isn’t utilizing to the best of his ability is SS Tony Jefferson, who is an extremely talented player. Pees has some Uber talented players on defense, let’s get someone in here that can use the players to their strengths.

been saying this since 2013. they should have gone after gus bradley. i would bring back pagano in a heartbeat if he is still interested in coaching when he gets canned. pees is a credible dc but times have changed and the game has evolved. he struggles to make in game adjustments and does not come up with creative ways to utilize what he has. bowser and williams have been ghosts in recent games and these guys would be getting to the qb on teams with better dc's. back to the topic of marty i have to say it is not all on him but like pees he has no creativity whatsoever. he is too vanilla and when roman takes over soon enough he may give the offense a slight jolt but we will see more of the same lame pathetic display on the field. i would like to see harbs go to the college ranks to find his next oc for next season. i have no doubt in my mind that next year harbs and ozzie will be on the bubble.

 

[The Greek]

been saying this since 2013. they should have gone after gus bradley. i would bring back pagano in a heartbeat if he is still interested in coaching when he gets canned. pees is a credible dc but times have changed and the game has evolved. he struggles to make in game adjustments and does not come up with creative ways to utilize what he has. bowser and williams have been ghosts in recent games and these guys would be getting to the qb on teams with better dc's. back to the topic of marty i have to say it is not all on him but like pees he has no creativity whatsoever. he is too vanilla and when roman takes over soon enough he may give the offense a slight jolt but we will see more of the same lame pathetic display on the field. i would like to see harbs go to the college ranks to find his next oc for next season. i have no doubt in my mind that next year harbs and ozzie will be on the bubble.

and sorry for getting off topic

 

[Dom McRaven]

Publicly at least.

I feel like I keep repeating myself.
Most if not all coaches and players are two faced in their pressers. We don't know what is said behind closed doors.
People who feel valued and appreciated will work harder than those who are belittled and demeaned. 100% of the time.
If Harbs spoke to the press and bashed all those guilty ( which would be pretty much everybody ) Most players and coaches would feel he was a backstabber trying to humiliate them publicly.
These people are professionals. They know what they are doing. I am pretty sure Marty knows he shit the bed sunday. ( I said pretty sure not positive ) No one wants to lose. No one like to lose. Most competitive natured people ( which would be 98% of the players and coaches ) take losses personally.
It is none of our business what goes on behind closed doors at the Castle.
I think you are completely naive to think all the coaches are skipping down the hallways hugging and kissing each other at the castle. They are not idiots. They know there is lots wrong. They are just not going to publicly throw someone under the bus . Which I think is how it should be.

Take the pressers with a slab of salt.

These are the very reasons why I never pay attention to post-game pressers. What any of them say mean absolutely nothing to me after I just watched the game live.

 

[rossihunter2]

I dig that and I think we've add the most success when we've had Levine in a blitz to boost the pass rush. One thing I'm not high on is putting Bowser and Judon inside. I think they can work on stunts but otherwise they won't amount to anything if we put them in front of Guards. I don't think it's necessary to put all of our OLB on the field at the same time, we have some pretty good interior rushers so let's just use them.

that's why id probably advocate for ZDS standing up over the nose - if only because that's the kind of thing that will make a center nervous - he's going to give ground because he expects to beaten by a faster guy so he'll automatically kick step backwards harder which naturally gives the linebacker more room to work with - i loved it when mcphee did that for us and ZDS is no mcphee - but he's a powerful dude - if judon put a little weight back on id be hyped for him at that spot - what we really need in that spot is a powerful linebacker with a great swim move

 

[rossihunter2]

been saying this since 2013. they should have gone after gus bradley. i would bring back pagano in a heartbeat if he is still interested in coaching when he gets canned. pees is a credible dc but times have changed and the game has evolved. he struggles to make in game adjustments and does not come up with creative ways to utilize what he has. bowser and williams have been ghosts in recent games and these guys would be getting to the qb on teams with better dc's. back to the topic of marty i have to say it is not all on him but like pees he has no creativity whatsoever. he is too vanilla and when roman takes over soon enough he may give the offense a slight jolt but we will see more of the same lame pathetic display on the field. i would like to see harbs go to the college ranks to find his next oc for next season. i have no doubt in my mind that next year harbs and ozzie will be on the bubble.

no thanks - gus bradley and pagano have shown nothing in their present situations that would make me want them here as DCs

 

[Jacquouille]

that's why id probably advocate for ZDS standing up over the nose - if only because that's the kind of thing that will make a center nervous - he's going to give ground because he expects to beaten by a faster guy so he'll automatically kick step backwards harder which naturally gives the linebacker more room to work with - i loved it when mcphee did that for us and ZDS is no mcphee - but he's a powerful dude - if judon put a little weight back on id be hyped for him at that spot - what we really need in that spot is a powerful linebacker with a great swim move

OK so several things that I want to react to:
1) I think if we want ZDS rushing from inside, why not just let him put his hands in the dirt? I think he's better off this way.
2) I agree ZDS is really strong and has the length to disturb a shorter C
3) IMO Judon purposely lost some weight to have more of a hybrid role between a pass rusher, an edge setter and a cover LB which is paying dividends right now. I don't think he lost that much strength and he honestly looks jacked still.
4) Against CLE last year ZDS had a sack using a swim move, it's at 3:50 in the video below:


It was actually well executed, but probably the only time I've seen him use it.

 

[rossihunter2]

OK so several things that I want to react to:
1) I think if we want ZDS rushing from inside, why not just let him put his hands in the dirt? I think he's better off this way.
2) I agree ZDS is really strong and has the length to disturb a shorter C
3) IMO Judon purposely lost some weight to have more of a hybrid role between a pass rusher, an edge setter and a cover LB which is paying dividends right now. I don't think he lost that much strength and he honestly looks jacked still.
4) Against CLE last year ZDS had a sack using a swim move, it's at 3:50 in the video below:


It was actually well executed, but probably the only time I've seen him use it.

yeah i dont really know what to make of judon because in my heart of hearts i really want him to dominate tackles but maybe the coaches saw that he wouldnt be able to do that repetitively so decided to diversify his skillset

in terms of ZDS swim move i wasnt insinuating he couldnt do it although the move in the clip above looks kind of like a hybrid swim and rip to me than a straight swim but that's the kind of momentum i want to see him take into the middle of an opposing offensive line - it would also minimise the need for him to bend as effectively as he would need to on the edge and he's got poor lateral movement and is pretty stiff

 

[The Greek]

no thanks - gus bradley and pagano have shown nothing in their present situations that would make me want them here as DCs

some coaches are better at just being coordinators than head coaches. i respect your opinion but i would take these guys over pees in a heart beat. neither the chargers or colts have the talent that the ravens have on defense and in fairness to bradley this is his 1st year installing his system and it will take some time.

 

[rossihunter2]

some coaches are better at just being coordinators than head coaches. i respect your opinion but i would take these guys over pees in a heart beat. neither the chargers or colts have the talent that the ravens have on defense and in fairness to bradley this is his 1st year installing his system and it will take some time.

what has gus bradley done since seattle?
pagano you could make an argument for but he's also a head coach... no way he becomes a dc without getting fired first - he's also not long for the league i fear

 

[ravenslord]

I don’t know about anyone else , but I think this Vikings game will make or break our season and decide whether
Harbaugh is fired during the offseason.
If it’s another clunker like the Bears game , Harbaugh’s days are numbered .

 

[rossihunter2]

I don’t know about anyone else , but I think this Vikings game will make or break our season and decide whether
Harbaugh is fired during the offseason.
If it’s another clunker like the Bears game , Harbaugh’s days are numbered .

why this game specifically?

surely more likely the games that decide his fate will be the two either side of the bye depending on what shape we are in after the titans and the aaron rodgers-less packers...