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Joe Flacco

Adreme said:
I actually think the opposite because of what his problems are. You are trying to change how he has played football for years so you want as much time to make them natural away from actual QB play as you can.

I can promise, even if his form looks great in practice, that once hits start coming the form will go back to his default which is why I wish for more time to make proper form his true default.

Again this is not me knocking him, mechanic changes are hard, and when I see himbI really see a Rodhers level ceiling BUT its really hard to change what you have been doing your entire life.
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but they're not changing how he's played football, all they are doing is adjusting his mechanics and footwork which he's now had months of practice with live reps to get more comfortable with

as big as the change is, the mechanical adjustment is not that major - it's a wider base, and some footwork changes mostly - it doesnt look like his release has been changed at all (which would be the adjustment that would take the longest or be most susceptible to going bad)

i just really dont see them being real problems
 
Adreme said:
I actually think the opposite because of what his problems are. You are trying to change how he has played football for years so you want as much time to make them natural away from actual QB play as you can.

I can promise, even if his form looks great in practice, that once hits start coming the form will go back to his default which is why I wish for more time to make proper form his true default.

Again this is not me knocking him, mechanic changes are hard, and when I see himbI really see a Rodhers level ceiling BUT its really hard to change what you have been doing your entire life.
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Except that whenever we’ve seen him play this hasn’t been the case. In preseason despite posting bad numbers and making poor throws, he stuck with his new mechanics, never panicked and reverted to try to make himself look better. And those new mechanics showed up against the panthers as well
 
Honestly as bad as Joe has played against Cincy, maybe its a good thing if Lamar eventually starts due to Flacco's injury.

I can only recall one game(home opener i believe) in his entire career where he played well. Most Cincy games he has been awful.
 
ravenslord said:
Honestly as bad as Joe has played against Cincy, maybe its a good thing if Lamar eventually starts due to Flacco's injury.

I can only recall one game(home opener i believe) in his entire career where he played well. Most Cincy games he has been awful.
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The home opener that we dedicated to Modell the offense was great. That was a long time ago. Some of those stinkers he put in vs. CIN was during a time in his career where he was looking a whole lot better than he's looked recently.

Harbaugh says Flacco is receiving treatment and will hopefully play. I'm willing to bet Joe will be on the field no matter what and will probably not play well. If that's the case and we lose, I'll be none too happy with Harbaugh.
 
Grim said:
I’m thinking it’s injuries for Flacco. His bout of injuries came after Kubiak left and guys can come back better from injuries because they have to relearn their mechanics but maybe Joe’s mechanics just got worse. It would explain why he’s gotten worse since then. I really felt like 2014 signaled a Renaissance for Joe but it only seems to have signaled the beginning of the end.
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I think it's a mix of injuries, poor staff, and we have to be honest here, part of his lack of mechanics and inconsistencies. He had poor mechanics are times to begin with, it was inconsistent on a game-to-game basis. Pretty much at home his mechanics were mostly sharp but on the road they were poor. He's just a superior QB at home and I wish we got the same Joe on the road that we get at home but that just doesn't happen.

2014 and beyond could have been good had it not been for the injuries, losing Kub and Joe's torn ACL. Just sad to see what happened there.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Except that whenever we’ve seen him play this hasn’t been the case. In preseason despite posting bad numbers and making poor throws, he stuck with his new mechanics, never panicked and reverted to try to make himself look better. And those new mechanics showed up against the panthers as well
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I have not had time to look (I have been seriously so slammed the past two months that I can barely find time to watch the games on Sunday/Monday) but just from an initial perspective his preseason throws were awful. Not even being kind, they were god awful. So many wobbly throws that just were not close and had no air under them. If you are telling me those throws were made with proper form that is a MUCH larger problem.
 
Deebo813 said:
His play has been the same tbh. He hasnt really lost it, its just been showing more because we dont have the defense to cover it up. He has always been inconsistent and inaccurate. Honestly, nothing has chance. The really bad part is that its noticeable because we havent seen any type of progress from him.
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That is true, but to an extent IMO. He was bound to have a career year before the Browns game hit and from then on you saw the adjustments that teams made to the defense have a huge effect on him. The point that stands pat with Joe is that he's better with a run game and when you limit his pass attempts, we all know this and this is the case with nearly every QB but especially with Joe more then anyone else.

I think the fans have got this all wrong and look, I'm not trying to cover for Joe but If I could have the old Joe Flacco back then I would take him in a heartbeat. For as long as I can remember this fan base has been clamoring for a Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Tom Brady(Yuck), but the fact of the matter is you aren't getting either of these guys unless you're either really lucky or picking No.1. I mean, the way that these guys ended up with their teams was fluke. No one would have thought Brees or Brady would be this good and no one thought Aaron Rodgers would have either or else he would have gone No.1 overall.

Look, I'm not saying that we should give Joe a pass for his poor play, but be careful for what you wish for because poor mechanics or not, because at his peak it's hard to find someone like him and you could do worse, much worse then him. I would like to have that Joe back if I could but it's unlikely at this point and like Grim said he's on borrowed time.
 
Adreme said:
I have not had time to look (I have been seriously so slammed the past two months that I can barely find time to watch the games on Sunday/Monday) but just from an initial perspective his preseason throws were awful. Not even being kind, they were god awful. So many wobbly throws that just were not close and had no air under them. If you are telling me those throws were made with proper form that is a MUCH larger problem.
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Thing is, you have to maintain your mechanics over the entire period of a game and season. I love the improvements Lamar made and it shows how hard he works but I need to see him maintain it for the entirety of a season and game before I can say that he's good in that aspect. FWIW it shows how good of a job James Urban has done with him though.
 
Adreme said:
I have not had time to look (I have been seriously so slammed the past two months that I can barely find time to watch the games on Sunday/Monday) but just from an initial perspective his preseason throws were awful. Not even being kind, they were god awful. So many wobbly throws that just were not close and had no air under them. If you are telling me those throws were made with proper form that is a MUCH larger problem.
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You’re getting away from the point. You said he would revert to his old mechanics and under pressure, and despite looking like dogshit in the preseason he didn’t revert, he didn’t revert Togo back to his natural form to try to make plays and look better, he stuck to his development.

And yes, he looked bad throwing it, because he was working with brand new mechanics and a whole different set of motions and he has looked much better when given opportunities than he looked in the preseason. Baker looked like he was drunk when he first started taking snaps under center. It’s about reps, hammering down those new mechanics until they become natural and you work out the kinks.
 
I'm confused. I haven't finished watching the entire game yet but where in the game vs the Steelers does it seem that Flacco injured his hip?
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
You’re getting away from the point. You said he would revert to his old mechanics and under pressure, and despite looking like dogshit in the preseason he didn’t revert, he didn’t revert Togo back to his natural form to try to make plays and look better, he stuck to his development.

And yes, he looked bad throwing it, because he was working with brand new mechanics and a whole different set of motions and he has looked much better when given opportunities than he looked in the preseason. Baker looked like he was drunk when he first started taking snaps under center. It’s about reps, hammering down those new mechanics until they become natural and you work out the kinks.
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My overall point is over the course of several games if the pressure is getting home then often times players revert to there natural state which is why I would ideally prefer if he had 2 full seasons to just have the new mechanics drilled into his head so that they are natural.

My question is if he didn't revert over the small quarters and halves he was playing then why did his throws look so awful? That is an entirely separate point. If he is so uncomfortable that he has to think through the proper mechanics before he can execute them and that is why he looks so clunky with them, that does not inspire confidence that he is close to ready.
 
Adreme said:
My overall point is over the course of several games if the pressure is getting home then often times players revert to there natural state which is why I would ideally prefer if he had 2 full seasons to just have the new mechanics drilled into his head so that they are natural.

My question is if he didn't revert over the small quarters and halves he was playing then why did his throws look so awful? That is an entirely separate point. If he is so uncomfortable that he has to think through the proper mechanics before he can execute them and that is why he looks so clunky with them, that does not inspire confidence that he is close to ready.
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watch his series vs the panthers and tell me you dont see an improvement...
his passes looked bad because he was uncomfortable (during the preseason) with everything that was new - we threw a new set of mechanics, an entire playbook, calling the plays in the huddle, and the faster pace of the NFL at him all at once and he didnt shit the bed

he's seemingly improved with every game
watch the series vs the panthers...

you're referring to him as if he's still playing like he was in the preseason which he isnt
 
Adreme said:
My overall point is over the course of several games if the pressure is getting home then often times players revert to there natural state which is why I would ideally prefer if he had 2 full seasons to just have the new mechanics drilled into his head so that they are natural.

My question is if he didn't revert over the small quarters and halves he was playing then why did his throws look so awful? That is an entirely separate point. If he is so uncomfortable that he has to think through the proper mechanics before he can execute them and that is why he looks so clunky with them, that does not inspire confidence that he is close to ready.
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The throws looked bad in preseason because he didn’t have enough reps under these new mechanics and it was unnatural... yet he never reverted despite looking bad. A superstar college qb, looking like shit for the first time ever in his career, being told “you’ve been doing it wrong, do it this way”, and he listened. A guy with his resume isn’t typically gonna like looking like shit, so they will usually revert, but he didn’t, and he stuck it out and looked damn good by the end of PS, and when given pass reps in regular season has looked damn good too. He hasn’t reverted yet, he’s not going to, and the more reps, the more natural it becomes. Look at the panthers game and tell me his mechanics and passes don’t look entirely different than anything you’ve seen from him.

I just don’t know how it’s hard to understand that new motions = unnatural = bad throws, and reps to work out those kinks.
 
rossihunter2 said:
watch his series vs the panthers and tell me you dont see an improvement...
his passes looked bad because he was uncomfortable (during the preseason) with everything that was new - we threw a new set of mechanics, an entire playbook, calling the plays in the huddle, and the faster pace of the NFL at him all at once and he didnt shit the bed

he's seemingly improved with every game
watch the series vs the panthers...

you're referring to him as if he's still playing like he was in the preseason which he isnt
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The only throw I have seen him make which I liked was when he threw it 10 yards to a TE with no defenders in the path of the throw. Not a tricky throw, nice to hit it on the run but I would expect any backup QB to hit that throw 9 times out of 10.

I have not actually gotten to see a lot of throws from him. I remember an awful one where he missed that exact throw to Crabtree I believe it was a couple weeks ago and then most of his plays have been running plays so I only have the preseason where there is any real body of work to base an opinion off of. If I missed a series in Carolina I should look at give me a rough time stamp and I will check it out later this week (I seriously need this year to end).
 
Adreme said:
The only throw I have seen him make which I liked was when he threw it 10 yards to a TE with no defenders in the path of the throw. Not a tricky throw, nice to hit it on the run but I would expect any backup QB to hit that throw 9 times out of 10.

I have not actually gotten to see a lot of throws from him. I remember an awful one where he missed that exact throw to Crabtree I believe it was a couple weeks ago and then most of his plays have been running plays so I only have the preseason where there is any real body of work to base an opinion off of. If I missed a series in Carolina I should look at give me a rough time stamp and I will check it out later this week (I seriously need this year to end).
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the ravens last drive of the game - i think it's just inside 3 minutes left on the clock left in the 4th quarter
 
Adreme said:
The only throw I have seen him make which I liked was when he threw it 10 yards to a TE with no defenders in the path of the throw. Not a tricky throw, nice to hit it on the run but I would expect any backup QB to hit that throw 9 times out of 10.

I have not actually gotten to see a lot of throws from him. I remember an awful one where he missed that exact throw to Crabtree I believe it was a couple weeks ago and then most of his plays have been running plays so I only have the preseason where there is any real body of work to base an opinion off of. If I missed a series in Carolina I should look at give me a rough time stamp and I will check it out later this week (I seriously need this year to end).
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Literally just YouTube lamar Jackson panthers

And for shits sake try to pay attention to the finer points and look how much cleaner and comfortable his play looks compared to preseason
 
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