The Random Thought Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm sorry but Josh Allen? Josh Allen throws fastballs 24/7 no touch, doesn't go through his reads and his accuracy is below average. You're underestimating Watson. Watson is closer to Lamar than he is to Josh Allen. Watson is in an awful situation: BOB! Yes, Watson takes unnecessary sacks and tries to play hero, but saying Watson doesn't read defenses is just wrong sorry.

I didn’t say he doesn’t read defenses, I’m saying he’s not nearly as adept as Lamar mentally, not even close. Straight up the only qb I’ve seen that can play hot the way lamar can, is Tom brady. And I am not the only one who sees this. Watson isn’t even close. To say someone is a better passer just because their arm may be slightly more accurate is really disingenuous

 

[Deebo813]

Winston has nothing to do with this conversation.

you cannot just say flat out that Watson is a better passer, because there isn’t much basis for it, sure he may be more accurate on a per snap basis but that doesn’t make you a better passer. Watson doesn’t have the lightning quick processing or the safe and smart tendency like Lamar. Where Lamar is seeing the hot receiver pre snap and executing the quick release, Watson isn’t seeing it and is just letting it rip and trying to take on the blitz all by his damn self and taking sacks. Watson is closer to josh Allen than he is to Lamar Jackson, he’s clearly better than Allen but Lamar is also clearly better than Watson. And I’m genuinely confused because last off-season you were a big time Lamar supporter and this year it seems like you’re desperately reaching to discredit him lol

Im still a big time lamar supporter and will be for the rest of my life but im also not biased. There is no way on this earth i can sit here and say lamar is better than arod,pat and russ.. him and watson are neck and neck though but ill give watson the edge. Yea he won MVP and had one of the best seasons ever but he still cant make all the throws yet. Lamar cant be replicated by no qb in nfl history. I know what he brings to the table but i just dnt think he is there yet.

Closer to josh allen? See now thats wild.

 

[Deebo813]

I didn’t say he doesn’t read defenses, I’m saying he’s not nearly as adept as Lamar mentally, not even close. Straight up the only qb I’ve seen that can play hot the way lamar can, is Tom brady. And I am not the only one who sees this. Watson isn’t even close. To say someone is a better passer just because their arm may be slightly more accurate is really disingenuous

What do you mean play hot? Watson takes sacks but he also has had a terrible oline with no running game.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Im still a big time lamar supporter and will be for the rest of my life but im also not biased. There is no way on this earth i can sit here and say lamar is better than arod,pat and russ.. him and watson are neck and neck though but ill give watson the edge. Yea he won MVP and had one of the best seasons ever but he still cant make all the throws yet. Lamar cant be replicated by no qb in nfl history. I know what he brings to the table but i just dnt think he is there yet.

Closer to josh allen? See now thats wild.

You are trying too hard to not be biased. Like you aren’t just being unbiased, you’re intentionally underselling Lamar consistently to come off as unbiased lol

What do you mean play hot? Watson takes sacks but he also has had a terrible oline with no running game.

when Brady reads a blitz, he’s “hot” and so is the receiver who’s gonna be able to counter the blitz. Playing hot just means you are the guy who’s gonna have to be poised and make a play in the blink of an eye, Watson cant fuck with Lamar in that regard, not by a long shot.

and also, Lamar’s OL was good, not that damn good, the same OL was hot fucking garbage with joe Flacco and for years the ravens need OL help and here we are with yanda gone, skura hurt, and Zeus replacing hurst and we have analysts calling our OL one of the best in football, the reason for that is LAMAR. Deshaun Watson could never impact defenses the way lamar can, defenses are scared to pressure Lamar, they aren’t scared to pressure Watson, as a matter of fact Watson invites pressure and concedes to it, why? Because he can’t play hot the way lamar can, he can’t counter pressure because he often folds under it, when pressure comes he fails to make his reads or pick up the hot receiver, instead he tries to truck through pass rushers and find a chance to roll out or scramble. And by pressure I mean actual pressure, not metaphorical crunch time pressure.

the level of poise and reactivity between the 2 players are night and day, you could put Lamar behind that OL with that receiving core and Lamar would look better than watson, as long as he had his same offseason coach

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm sorry but Josh Allen? Josh Allen throws fastballs 24/7 no touch, doesn't go through his reads and his accuracy is below average. You're underestimating Watson. Watson is closer to Lamar than he is to Josh Allen. Watson is in an awful situation: BOB! Yes, Watson takes unnecessary sacks and tries to play hero, but saying Watson doesn't read defenses is just wrong sorry.

watson is still in the stage of his career where mentally a pre-snap to post-snap change can screw him over processing-wise where he doesnt instinctively know how to adjust the play and it leads to sacks because he then holds the ball too long

lamar skipped that stage of rookie processing because he always has had it

my guess is that's what flex is referring to

its not that watson cant or doesnt read defences because he does but he doesnt have that post-snap processing to see the picture and instantly know what to do with the ball (or not) in the same way that lamar already does

 

[rossihunter2]

Im still a big time lamar supporter and will be for the rest of my life but im also not biased. There is no way on this earth i can sit here and say lamar is better than arod,pat and russ.. him and watson are neck and neck though but ill give watson the edge. Yea he won MVP and had one of the best seasons ever but he still cant make all the throws yet. Lamar cant be replicated by no qb in nfl history. I know what he brings to the table but i just dnt think he is there yet.

Closer to josh allen? See now thats wild.

what throw cant lamar make right now?
sure he has to get better on some of the outside the numbers throws but he still makes those plays

i like deshaun watson but i dont see how he could be better than lamar - all he's got over lamar for me is a cannon arm and a couple of playoff wins

 

[cdp]

watson is still in the stage of his career where mentally a pre-snap to post-snap change can screw him over processing-wise where he doesnt instinctively know how to adjust the play and it leads to sacks because he then holds the ball too long

lamar skipped that stage of rookie processing because he always has had it

my guess is that's what flex is referring to

its not that watson cant or doesnt read defences because he does but he doesnt have that post-snap processing to see the picture and instantly know what to do with the ball (or not) in the same way that lamar already does

In that regard Lamar's better no doubt. But Lamar's also not perfect - he still zeros in on Andrews even though there would have been better options. We're all ravens fans I get it, but to say only Brady is better playing hot is exaggerated.

 

[Sami84]

One guy we havent discussed much is UDFA aaron crawford who had the highest run stopping grade out of all DTs last year ( number 1, numero uno)

 

[rossihunter2]

In that regard Lamar's better no doubt. But Lamar's also not perfect - he still zeros in on Andrews even though there would have been better options. We're all ravens fans I get it, but to say only Brady is better playing hot is exaggerated.

that's true - he does have some brady-like pocket movement though (seems an odd thing to say to compare the most mobile QB in the league with the least mobile) - they have similar poise and feel in the pocket

if lamar were the perfect QB we wouldnt be arguing about him vs Watson we'd be arguing about him vs wilson and mahomes

 

[Sami84]

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2019-pff-all-acc-team

INTERIOR DEFENDER
First Team: Aaron Crawford, North Carolina
Doing it completely different than his counterpart here, Crawford was the nation's top run defender at the position, leading all FBS interior defensive lineman in run-defense grade at 91.6. He brought home 26 run stops on 292 snaps against the run, the former figure ranking fifth in the country as he missed just four of his 46 tackle attempts in the run game. What sets him apart from other top run defenders in the conference and at the national level was the fact that he also brought a ton of value against the opponent's passing attack. Crawford racked up 16 total pressures, including three sacks, six QB hits and another seven hurries while forcing another two fumbles in what was a dominant final year in Chapel Hill.

 

[BloodRaven]

So I recently read an article about the Dolphins possibly redshirting Tua and the topic of his throwing arm came up, Tua is right handed in everything except when throwing the ball. This is because his father was a lefty and just didnt want his son growing up throwing right handed, he basically forced him to become a left handed thrower. Then he bragged to the reporter about beating his son when he didnt have a perfect game, 4TDs and 1INT meant he was getting the belt. Those rough years probably helped him excel but it was still messed up.

 

[Deebo813]

what throw cant lamar make right now?
sure he has to get better on some of the outside the numbers throws but he still makes those plays

i like deshaun watson but i dont see how he could be better than lamar - all he's got over lamar for me is a cannon arm and a couple of playoff wins

Dont forget accuracy and 2yrs of looking like a good qb.

 

[RavensMania]

You are trying too hard to not be biased. Like you aren’t just being unbiased, you’re intentionally underselling Lamar consistently to come off as unbiased lol

when Brady reads a blitz, he’s “hot” and so is the receiver who’s gonna be able to counter the blitz. Playing hot just means you are the guy who’s gonna have to be poised and make a play in the blink of an eye, Watson cant fuck with Lamar in that regard, not by a long shot.

and also, Lamar’s OL was good, not that damn good, the same OL was hot fucking garbage with joe Flacco and for years the ravens need OL help and here we are with yanda gone, skura hurt, and Zeus replacing hurst and we have analysts calling our OL one of the best in football, the reason for that is LAMAR. Deshaun Watson could never impact defenses the way lamar can, defenses are scared to pressure Lamar, they aren’t scared to pressure Watson, as a matter of fact Watson invites pressure and concedes to it, why? Because he can’t play hot the way lamar can, he can’t counter pressure because he often folds under it, when pressure comes he fails to make his reads or pick up the hot receiver, instead he tries to truck through pass rushers and find a chance to roll out or scramble. And by pressure I mean actual pressure, not metaphorical crunch time pressure.

the level of poise and reactivity between the 2 players are night and day, you could put Lamar behind that OL with that receiving core and Lamar would look better than watson, as long as he had his same offseason coach

his ability to play hot was the reason he was top two or three against the blitz and pressure.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

watson is still in the stage of his career where mentally a pre-snap to post-snap change can screw him over processing-wise where he doesnt instinctively know how to adjust the play and it leads to sacks because he then holds the ball too long

lamar skipped that stage of rookie processing because he always has had it

my guess is that's what flex is referring to

its not that watson cant or doesnt read defences because he does but he doesnt have that post-snap processing to see the picture and instantly know what to do with the ball (or not) in the same way that lamar already does

Exactly, the 2 are worlds apart in a skill that separates good/great from elite qbs. Watson can be the best of the tier 2 guys all he wants, but Lamar is still a tier 1 guy, because of this one trait.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

In that regard Lamar's better no doubt. But Lamar's also not perfect - he still zeros in on Andrews even though there would have been better options. We're all ravens fans I get it, but to say only Brady is better playing hot is exaggerated.

Mahomes and brees are better as well, Rodgers honestly the jury is out because I just don’t see poise and quick quality decisiveness anymore from him. Brady is just who comes to mind.

and Watson absolutely zeroes in on guys, he’s got the best receiver in the league, not only that but arguably the best overall wr corps in the league, Watson also runs a lot more plays where the wrs are first reads, a guy doesn’t have a highlight reel of contested catches like dhop without the qb zeroing in on him. the offense at times is designed to zero in on andrews, And when he’s a poor read lamar is quicker to make a wise decision than Watson, when Watson only finds one target that play is either a sack or a tossup, when Lamar only finds one target typically the worst result is a quality throwaway

 

[cdp]

Mahomes and brees are better as well, Rodgers honestly the jury is out because I just don’t see poise and quick quality decisiveness anymore from him. Brady is just who comes to mind.

and Watson absolutely zeroes in on guys, he’s got the best receiver in the league, not only that but arguably the best overall wr corps in the league, Watson also runs a lot more plays where the wrs are first reads, a guy doesn’t have a highlight reel of contested catches like dhop without the qb zeroing in on him. the offense at times is designed to zero in on andrews, And when he’s a poor read lamar is quicker to make a wise decision than Watson, when Watson only finds one target that play is either a sack or a tossup, when Lamar only finds one target typically the worst result is a quality throwaway

Thats for sure Lamar's decision making is phenomenal - i think he's the best QB in the league in that regard. I think I haven't seen one INT where it was a bad read or a dumb decision in general. Most of his INTS came off tipped balls or drops. He also had the least amount of turnover worthy plays and had the highest grade under pressure according to PFF.

 

[rossihunter2]

Thats for sure Lamar's decision making is phenomenal - i think he's the best QB in the league in that regard. I think I haven't seen one INT where it was a bad read or a dumb decision in general. Most of his INTS came off tipped balls or drops. He also had the least amount of turnover worthy plays and had the highest grade under pressure according to PFF.

There was one against the steelers in week 5 maybe iirc that was a really poor decision but I don’t really remember it which says a lot about our qb

He had only 6 ints all year and I can think of at least 2 that shouldn’t have been ints

 

[Dom McRaven]

There was one against the steelers in week 5 maybe iirc that was a really poor decision but I don’t really remember it which says a lot about our qb

He had only 6 ints all year and I can think of at least 2 that shouldn’t have been ints

Yes, it was right before the half as well. At the top of my head as I'm typing this post out, I can think of three INTs that should not have been

1. Andrews "pass interference" non-call against the Browns part 1
2. Andrews "pass interference" non-call against the Steelers part 1
3. Devin Bush's "interception" which hit the ground but it's the Steelers home-cooking special for ya

The other 2 INTs were:
1. Tipped ball against the Browns part 1
2. Tipped ball from Snead's hands against the Bills albeit not a GREAT throw

The fact that we basically accounted for every INT is astonishing to me on how much he has progressed as a passer from his rookie season to his "rookie" season.

 

[Davesta]

If you guys have reddit, the Seahawks subreddit group is blowing up. Apparently someone with “insiders” info is saying they just traded for Myles Garrett.

 

[cdp]

If you guys have reddit, the Seahawks subreddit group is blowing up. Apparently someone with “insiders” info is saying they just traded for Myles Garrett.

He was the guy who leaked the Britt release. and apparently the Browns signed Clowney...