The Injuries, the Defense and the Offense (and the Special Teams)

[rmcjacket23]

To his defense… Zach Orr got this man dropping into coverage.

Maybe Marcus Williams was right when he said “wtf kind of defense is this?”

I mean the whole "drop into coverage" thing is a bit overblown. MacDonald did that too. On two of the Chiefs sacks yesterday, Chris Jones dropped into coverage. And he's not a linebacker.

I'm not suggesting Orr's defense is awesome, but 32 NFL teams have determined Marcus Williams sucks ass at 29. So I'm not really interested on what he thinks about NFL defenses.

 

[UPennChem]

And on the Lamar front, he's part of the problem this year too. It seems to be an extension of having little trust in his OL, but he's making decisions that look like 2020 and 2021 him, which is conveniently the last time we had an OL this shitty.

It's almost like there's a known formula to winning games

 

[rmcjacket23]

And on the Lamar front, he's part of the problem this year too. It seems to be an extension of having little trust in his OL, but he's making decisions that look like 2020 and 2021 him, which is conveniently the last time we had an OL this shitty.

Its obviously easier said than done, but he just fucking needs to get over it. Once you start anticipating pressure, it's game over. You can blame the Oline all you want, but the Oline isn't consistently bad. They're inconsistent. They have times where they're good and times where they're terrible. And if you expect they'll always be terrible, you'll do a shit job. Like he did yesterday.

And to be partially honest... I didn't think the Oline was dreadful yesterday. I think the Chiefs blitzed the fuck out of us and we had no answer for it, which is both a coaching failure and a QB failure. I didn't see the Chiefs disrupting us with 4 man pressures. I saw them blitzing 5-6 on a ton of downs, and even putting a spy out there (that we had no plan for either), and we couldn't do shit with it. Olines aren't going to win against 5+ man pressures that often.

 

[Simba]

Its obviously easier said than done, but he just fucking needs to get over it. Once you start anticipating pressure, it's game over. You can blame the Oline all you want, but the Oline isn't consistently bad. They're inconsistent. They have times where they're good and times where they're terrible. And if you expect they'll always be terrible, you'll do a shit job. Like he did yesterday.

And to be partially honest... I didn't think the Oline was dreadful yesterday. I think the Chiefs blitzed the fuck out of us and we had no answer for it, which is both a coaching failure and a QB failure. I didn't see the Chiefs disrupting us with 4 man pressures. I saw them blitzing 5-6 on a ton of downs, and even putting a spy out there (that we had no plan for either), and we couldn't do shit with it. Olines aren't going to win against 5+ man pressures that often.

I can agree with that. The OL is shaky but Lamar is still seeing ghosts. That's on him.

 

[UPennChem]

Its obviously easier said than done, but he just fucking needs to get over it. Once you start anticipating pressure, it's game over. You can blame the Oline all you want, but the Oline isn't consistently bad. They're inconsistent. They have times where they're good and times where they're terrible. And if you expect they'll always be terrible, you'll do a shit job. Like he did yesterday.

And to be partially honest... I didn't think the Oline was dreadful yesterday. I think the Chiefs blitzed the fuck out of us and we had no answer for it, which is both a coaching failure and a QB failure. I didn't see the Chiefs disrupting us with 4 man pressures. I saw them blitzing 5-6 on a ton of downs, and even putting a spy out there (that we had no plan for either), and we couldn't do shit with it. Olines aren't going to win against 5+ man pressures that often.

They were bad but the preparation, Monken, and Lamar were even worse

 

[rmcjacket23]

They were bad but the preparation, Monken, and Lamar were even worse

Correct. Which for me, again, brings out the frustration of a game where some of the issues that happened aren't recurring. Lamar was bad yesterday. Hasn't played that bad in awhile. So I can't sit there and say like that's a huge problem. I thought the run D was actually very good yesterday, which people bitched about all last week. Backup Dline and they held them under 4 YPC and their leading rusher was a WR. Take away the one big run from Worthy, and they were excellent.

The recurring problems are the one's that need to be fixed. Lack of pass rush is a monstrosity of a problem. Poor tackling is a gigantic problem. Turnovers are a gigantic problem, and lack of creation of turnovers is a gigantic problem.

Injuries are going to be what they are, and they clearly lack depth on the Dline, but come hell or high water they need to figure out how to get the D to play at least average football.

 

[ravenslord]

And on the Lamar front, he's part of the problem this year too. It seems to be an extension of having little trust in his OL, but he's making decisions that look like 2020 and 2021 him, which is conveniently the last time we had an OL this shitty.

So go to a short passing game. Lamar has the accuracy now he didn’t have early in his career

 

[OURavensFan]

Correct. Which for me, again, brings out the frustration of a game where some of the issues that happened aren't recurring. Lamar was bad yesterday. Hasn't played that bad in awhile. So I can't sit there and say like that's a huge problem. I thought the run D was actually very good yesterday, which people bitched about all last week. Backup Dline and they held them under 4 YPC and their leading rusher was a WR. Take away the one big run from Worthy, and they were excellent.

The recurring problems are the one's that need to be fixed. Lack of pass rush is a monstrosity of a problem. Poor tackling is a gigantic problem. Turnovers are a gigantic problem, and lack of creation of turnovers is a gigantic problem.

Injuries are going to be what they are, and they clearly lack depth on the Dline, but come hell or high water they need to figure out how to get the D to play at least average football.

Just another game where Spagnola dominates him unfortunately. I expected a loss I did not expect us to crumble to the Chiefs in the same way we always do, coaches and players. We abandoned a run game that was actually working and offsetting their pass rush. I’m so disappointed

 

[rmcjacket23]

Just another game where Spagnola dominates him unfortunately. I expected a loss I did not expect us to crumble to the Chiefs in the same way we always do, coaches and players. We abandoned a run game that was actually working and offsetting their pass rush. I’m so disappointed

I'll go back and watch the first half. I honestly don't care about the whole "abandoning the run" thing. I know we're down 17 points when we get first possession in the 2nd half, so I personally don't give a shit about the run/pass ratio down 3 scores 2nd half. It should be at least 80% pass in that scenario, and if it were 100%, I'm fine with it.

The run game has been dog shit for the last two weeks and Henry has put the ball on the ground for three straight weeks. I'm not playing the game of "o the game would be more competitive if we ran it more". You got a two-time MVP QB out there. I'm all for balance, but this wasn't the game to take it out of his hands.

I think when people really look at the first half, they're not going to find many more opportunities to run the ball. And I have no idea what the purpose of running the ball down 17 in the second half is, because it sure as shit ain't to win the game.

 

[Tank]

Ravens haven’t forced a turnover against another team other than the Browns this year and last year…..

This is true, but It bears repeating that turnovers are usually a mistake by the other team. There are the punch outs here and there, but picks and fumbles are generally the product of poor decisions by the offense.

 

[Tank]

And on the Lamar front, he's part of the problem this year too. It seems to be an extension of having little trust in his OL, but he's making decisions that look like 2020 and 2021 him, which is conveniently the last time we had an OL this shitty.

He's making decisions like a rook in his 8th year. And the pouting and foot stomping regenerates throughout the squad. You look to your QB to be the leader, a calming influence in challenging situations. That's one of the big reasons you pay them the big bucks.

 

[Tank]

So go to a short passing game. Lamar has the accuracy now he didn’t have early in his career

It's his job to recognize the blitz and do just that.

 

[gtalk12]

This is true, but It bears repeating that turnovers are usually a mistake by the other team. There are the punch outs here and there, but picks and fumbles are generally the product of poor decisions by the offense.

What about sacks? Pressure? A stop here or there on 4th down? This defense sucks and it's easily after 4 weeks the worst defense we have ever seen. They weren't stopping anyone before anybody started to go down either.

 

[gtalk12]

It's his job to recognize the blitz and do just that.

that is a failure on the coaches and QB.

 

[Carptom1]

This game just showed me we’re never beating the Chiefs, I’m not sure what it is but we can’t play defense and we can’t impose our will on offense. Coaches panic. We had the run game working and we abandoned it to get Lamar killed who has been awful this season not taking checkdowns and taking sacks instead.

I found myself feeling sorry for Lamar on many levels. I was actually relieved when they pulled him out as he was going to get killed at some point. When you have a QB that is as skilled as he is, you need a coach that will keep him grounded in the fact that he can’t win on every play. Not running Henry 35 times is a head scratcher…. He was averaging over seven yards a play after the first couple series. But no let’s have Lamar pass with no line. After the first drive the game plan sucked. You guys desperately need a change as harbaugh has run his course. Lamar can win a big game, but not with a coaching staff that puckers up in big games, as that lack of calm infects them all.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I found myself feeling sorry for Lamar on many levels. I was actually relieved when they pulled him out as he was going to get killed at some point. When you have a QB that is as skilled as he is, you need a coach that will keep him grounded in the fact that he can’t win on every play. Not running Henry 35 times is a head scratcher…. He was averaging over seven yards a play after the first couple series. But no let’s have Lamar pass with no line. After the first drive the game plan sucked. You guys desperately need a change as harbaugh has run his course. Lamar can win a big game, but not with a coaching staff that puckers up in big games, as that lack of calm infects them all.

I'm not sure what running Henry 15-20x in the second half, when you're down 17, is going to do for you. An 8 minute scoring drive isn't going to do anything for a defense that can't stop anything.

It's same concept as always. Look in the first half and identify where that was an opportunity to run more. There weren't many. You spend a couple drives in either four or two minute drill, and the one drive you had a good chance to run the ball you took two delay of game penalties. 2nd and 15 ain't Derrick Henry time.

And I'm also perplexed with the infatuation of getting more touches to a guy who's clearly got a fumbling problem, and behind an Oline that has struggled to run block all year long.

There's "balance" to stop the D from pressuring, and then there's balance because you think it'll correlate to points.

 

[purplepittabread88]

He's making decisions like a rook in his 8th year. And the pouting and foot stomping regenerates throughout the squad. You look to your QB to be the leader, a calming influence in challenging situations. That's one of the big reasons you pay them the big bucks.

Anytime you see him upset you know it's wraps for the game. If he tosses his helmet we are actually cooked. He can't be doing this shit idc how fairly it is that he's upset. I get why he's upset, the guards need to be better. Literally no excuse to not at least go and try and find a valuable option.

I think people have really nailed it that as soon as he gets hit a few times it's ghosts when he dances feeling the pressure all night. He had so many hesitation throw / run opportunities - just pick one and stick with it. He had two delay of games on the SAME drive - that's unacceptable. He comes into games like this already mentally defeated, and the second things stop going perfect it feels the loss is coming.

Obviously it's on the coach's to help fix this and they never do. We need a short passing game like Pitt ran with ben and the mid line all those years. Get him settled in on a bunch of throws to zay beating the pressure. Also, if you really want to abonden the run, at least put in Henry to keep them honest. He is also the biggest play back in the league, so it's not like he wastes time, he racks up 20-30yrd carries consistently.

 

[gtalk12]

And on the Lamar front, he's part of the problem this year too. It seems to be an extension of having little trust in his OL, but he's making decisions that look like 2020 and 2021 him, which is conveniently the last time we had an OL this shitty.

I don't think he was a problem in games 1-3 this year. We aren't having this conversation if the defense at any point decided to show up in 2 games this year. Going into this game 3-0 and losing to the Chiefs looks different. It's been 3 games now against good to great opponents and the defense has yet to do anything. The best defense we've seen this year is the Browns where Jackson and Co played well.

He was bad in this game, but I am not sure how we can look at the first 3 games and even come close to saying he was part of the issue.

 

[gtalk12]

Anytime you see him upset you know it's wraps for the game. If he tosses his helmet we are actually cooked. He can't be doing this shit idc how fairly it is that he's upset. I get why he's upset, the guards need to be better. Literally no excuse to not at least go and try and find a valuable option.

I think people have really nailed it that as soon as he gets hit a few times it's ghosts when he dances feeling the pressure all night. He had so many hesitation throw / run opportunities - just pick one and stick with it. He had two delay of games on the SAME drive - that's unacceptable. He comes into games like this already mentally defeated, and the second things stop going perfect it feels the loss is coming.

Obviously it's on the coach's to help fix this and they never do. We need a short passing game like Pitt ran with ben and the mid line all those years. Get him settled in on a bunch of throws to zay beating the pressure. Also, if you really want to abonden the run, at least put in Henry to keep them honest. He is also the biggest play back in the league, so it's not like he wastes time, he racks up 20-30yrd carries consistently.

I am not a fan of taking him out to put Hill in. Henry is a good pass blocker and he's made some decent plays in the passing game as well. We don't take time outs to settle these guys in nor do we do any of the easy stuff consistently when your back is against the wall (O-line getting pushed everywhere and allowing defenders right through KNOWING Lamar hasn't really been 100% since week 1)

 

[Truth]

I mean the whole "drop into coverage" thing is a bit overblown. MacDonald did that too. On two of the Chiefs sacks yesterday, Chris Jones dropped into coverage. And he's not a linebacker.

I'm not suggesting Orr's defense is awesome, but 32 NFL teams have determined Marcus Williams sucks ass at 29. So I'm not really interested on what he thinks about NFL defenses.

Jones yesterday wouldn't be the best example. He was on the field on 2 of the 3 sacks against Jackson and he rushed on both occasions. In fact, statistically, he dropped back into coverage 0 times. 7 times combined over the last 5 years, with 1 career catch allowed for -2 yards.

I get what you mean in general. That's not to say that it would be shocking for a player that isn't normally in coverage. If there's an overload blitz on the opposite side, or at least if the defender is feigning a rush. We did do that with Macdonald, to your point. I still remember being bewildered at giving up a critical 1st down against Pittsburgh wherein Clowney dropped to the sticks on a 3rd and 9 into the trips side, and we gave up the conversion. Weird then and weird now. But we did at least send 5, and we overloaded the opposite side, so somebody had to drop.

But this is from yesterday:

He's the WILL linebacker here, with a standard 4-man rush. And the closest intended defender against the X-receiver, with Nate Wiggins fanning out to cover the RB on the flat route. We dropped Odafe Oweh yesterday into the hook/curl to the trips side in a Tampa 2 yesterday with a 4-man rush. Which gave up a catch directly into his area, something I can't blame him for. We did at least manage to overload the Lions left side last week when we dropped Green into the middle of the field against Sam LaPorta, but we also again only sent 4 rushers and they were all picked up.

And these are exploited instantly. They're not even secondary reads where you're hoping they're not seen during the progression. The LaPorta throw was an instant read. Same with the one above to JuJu Smith-Schuster. So far, our edge rushers have given up 6 catches on 6 targets for 55 yards. We gave up 103 with Macdonald in 19 games, and that was at least to add wrinkles to an existing pass rush. Now, we're just doing them because it's a different look. Which would at least be somewhat understandable if we schemed them properly. But on most of them (if not all), we've sent an extra linebacker and dropped and edge player, so the blocking assignment is easier for the offensive line and the read is quicker for the quarterback. It's innovation over insulation. It's far from the chief concern with Zach Orr, but it does feel like a microcosm of the inexplicable calls we've seen.